Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Have a cup of coffee with candidates for elected offices in Clawson, Michigan, this fall 2025. Clawson resident and former Clawson City Charter Commission member BT Irwin sits down for friendly and relaxed conversations with all 14 candidates, asking them questions that shine the light on their Clawson stories, their character, and what they imagine and plan for Clawson (and how they will bring it about if they get into office). These interviews reveal the candidates as they really are (and not as they appear to be in campaign literature and soundbites).
Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Paula Millan, candidate for mayor, City of Clawson
Paula Millan is a 13-year resident of Clawson who has served in public office for most of that time. She began her service on Clawson City Council in 2017, then won mayoral terms in 2021 and 2023. She is one of two candidates running to be the first-ever mayor elected to a four-year term in Clawson.
For your hometown Clawson real estate needs, get KW Domain certified Realtor Erin Redmond at eredrealestate@gmail.com or call (586) 242-8419.
Expecting and new parents, certified postpartum doula and pediatric sleep coach Lynn Eads can help you and your new baby settle into your life together. Learn more at learnwithlynne.com.
Get out and vote, Clawson! Learn all about how, when, and where to vote by clicking here or call (248) 435-4500x118.
Friends, hello, I'm B.T. Irwin, your neighbor in Clausen for 13 years now. Welcome to Coffee with Clausen Candidates, a limited podcast series that gives each candidate for Clausen City Council and Mayor their own episode. These are in-depth, but relaxed conversations in which all 14 candidates reveal their hearts, minds, and personalities. More on that in a minute or two. First, please know that the information you're hearing in this introduction is the same for all 14 episodes. So if you already heard it when listening to another episode, you don't have to listen to it again. Just skip straight to the interview. If this is your first episode of Coffee with Clausen candidates, I think the information I'm about to share with you in this introduction will help you understand the election coming up in Clausen this fall and how this podcast can help you choose who will get your votes. Before we get to that, you may want to know who is hosting this show and whether he's fit for your time and trust. Now, I'm not a professional journalist, but I do have a lot of experience interviewing public figures for the Christian News Organization where I work part-time. More important to Clausen folks like you, however, is my unusual level of involvement in Clausen government over the last few years. It started in 2020 when I accepted an appointment to the Zoning Board of Appeals. In November 2021, I was elected to the Clausen City Charter Commission, where I served until the people of Clausen adopted the revised city charter we proposed in November 2023. Through those experiences, I've gotten to know Clausen City government and many of the people who work in it. So that's me. Now let's talk about the election happening in Clausen this fall, 2025. This is your crash course. If you didn't know, this year's Clausen City election is historic for at least two reasons. First, it is the first general election to take place after the adoption of the revised city charter in November 2023. This fall, our city council is expanding from one two-year mayor and four at-large four-year members to one four-year mayor and six four-year members. Second, if the fourteen candidates running for city offices in Clausen this fall are not a record, I'd like to see an election where more candidates ran. I can't imagine that we've ever had this many people running for office at the same time in Clausen. So this is a big election with lots of candidates running for more seats than Clausen has ever had on its city ballot. There are a total of six seats up for election in what will be a seven-seat city council come November 2025. I think it can get confusing, so I'm going to break it down for you. First, the office of mayor is up for election. The mayor chairs the city council and is a voting member of it. Until now, Clausen's mayor always served a two-year term. The revised charter, however, changes the mayor's term to four years to match the other members of City Council. Whoever the people of Clausen elect as their mayor this fall will serve from November 2025 to November 2029. Two candidates are running for mayor. Incumbent mayor Paula Milan, who has been in office since 2021, and Clausen City Council member Sue Moffat. Next, there are four at-large city council seats up for election. Two of those seats are existing seats with expiring terms. Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd occupy those seats, which they won as the top two vote getters in the November 2021 election. The two existing seats are for four-year terms, running from November 2025 to November 2029. And then there are two new seats that the revised city charter adds to the city council this year. Of the ten candidates running, the top four vote getters will take the four at-large seats. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, 2025 to 2029. But the fourth place vote getter will serve only two years until 2027. This will happen only once. In 2027, that seat will become a four-year term like all the others. The revised charter calls for this unusual arrangement so that the City Council eventually gets on a cycle of four of its seats being up for election every four years, and three of its seats being up for election every four years on a rotating basis. So in review, there are four at-large city council seats up for election this fall twenty twenty-five, two of them existing and two of them new. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, and the fourth place vote getter will serve a two-year term. The ten candidates running for those four seats are incumbents Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd, and challengers George Georges, Scott Manning, Meredith Peltinen, Billy Rinshaw, Heather Rinkovich, Loris Lewinsky, Alex Speeshock, and Scott Tinlin. Are you keeping score? We're up to five seats on the ballot. I said there are six, so here's the last one. Back in the spring, Councilmember Matt Benkowski resigned his seat because he was moving out of the city. Benkowski won his four-year term in November 2023, so he was to fill his seat until November twenty twenty-seven. When a city council member leaves office during her or his term, the revised city charter calls for City Council to appoint a replacement who will serve until the next regular city election, at which time the public will elect someone to finish out the full term. Not long after Benkowski resigned, City Council appointed Richard Scott to fill the seat until the November 2025 election. On your ballot, this City Council seat will be listed apart from the other four. Whichever candidate gets the most votes for this seat will serve out the rest of Binkowski's term that runs through November 2027. Scott is running to retain the seat for the next two years. Aiden O'Rourke is running to challenge him for it. So now that you know what is up for election in Clausen this fall and who is running, let's get to how this podcast might help you decide who gets your votes. I interviewed all 14 candidates, one episode for each one. I wanted to do something different from the other candidate interviews that are out there. Not to say that those other interviews are not helpful. I think they are quite helpful and I follow them myself. But I find that the usual candidate interview format to be too narrow or too short to really get to know the candidates as people. I like to know where candidates stand on the quote unquote issues, yes, but I really want to know what they know, how and what they think, what makes them tick, who they are as human beings. So I designed these podcast interviews to be friendly and relaxed and full of open-ended questions. I wanted the candidates to feel like they could open up and just talk about what they think is important and why. I also wanted them to be able to talk about themselves, without the pressure of needing to react to questions about issues and one-minute sound bites. I can say that I enjoyed every one of the fourteen conversations as I sat across from candidates at places like the Clausen Historical Museum, Blair Memorial Public Library, and Cave Cafe in downtown Clausen. Even interviewed one candidate on a front porch. And I learned a lot from just about every candidate who opened up to me. So I hope you learn a lot too, and that in learning about the candidates, you'll fill out your ballot with confidence and even, dare I say it, joy. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode of Coffee with Clausen Candidates. We're sitting here at uh the recently reopened Cave Cafe in downtown Clausen. I'm excited about this because it's the first one of these we've actually done at a coffee house. And I'm sitting here with our mayor, Paula Milan, and she has been a resident for 12 or 13 years. We moved here about the same same time. And uh almost as soon as she moved here, she was appointed to the Planning Commission where she served for about four years and then ran for city council for the first time and won in 2017. She may tell that story in a moment. In 2021, she ran for mayor. She got elected. Back then it was a two-year term, and so she ran again in 2023, got re-elected, and now with the new city charter, it's a four-year term, and she is running this fall 2025 to be our first ever mayor in Clausen who would serve a four-year term. So, Madam Mayor, thanks for sitting down and having coffee with us at Cave Cafe.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so happy to be here, and I'm looking forward to just chatting with you and you know having good conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, with a good cup of tea. Yeah, yeah. And I'm I can I can attest that this is one of the best lattes I've ever had. So if you're listening to this, you know where you need to come next for your next cup of coffee. Okay, so tell us tell us your Klausen story.
SPEAKER_00:My family and I came here as school of as a school of choice family. We lived in Pontiac, we loved our house, loved the Christian school. We had our kids in for a while, decided we didn't necessarily vibe with them anymore, and then I was looking for a place to send my kids to school. Klausen was school of choice. We interviewed several schools, came to Klauson three times, met with Patty Pell, the principal at Shalm. The third time I came with my daughter, who was in going into fifth grade, she remembered her name. And it had been several weeks since we'd seen her, and she knew Alyssa right off the bat, and that was a good feeling for me. Made my daughter feel good. We did an evaluation of the places that we looked at. I was thinking, this is it's homey, it that it's accountable, it's friendly. Let's try it. So thinking we would just be in a school choice environment for one year and then figure out what we're gonna do with our lives and pick up and move and all of those things is what we what I thought I was doing that day. And then fast forward, we we sent both of our kids to school. I had a fifth grader and a second grader at the time. They made friends, they joined baseball, they joined you know, lots of little activities and got to know the Clausen families. And getting to know the Clausen families, we decided that this was a place we wanted to be. So we were school choice back and forth for many years, and then we we stopped houses in Clausen as people did back then, trying to find the thing that would work for the one that would work for us best. And we finally found this beautiful house that we love on Darby Court with idyllic neighbors, and it's just a really great place. And we put down roots here, and it was all because we needed a school, and then we met the people. It was the people who sold us. It wasn't necessarily the schools we liked it, it was all good, but it was the families who lived like we did, had values like we did, and just like poured into their kids and poured into their community. It was a place we wanted to be. So that's how we wound up here.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. And I think I've told you this before. Your street is named after a former mayor of Colossum. Yeah, but I don't remember his story or why he has a street named after him, but he does. So lucky him. The mayor lives on a street named after a mayor. So one of the things that people don't ever don't seem to think about is our elected officials, it's basically like a volunteer position. You know, you're paid enough to like buy a cup of coffee per meeting, and you have day jobs, a lot of you. And so a lot of people may be surprised to learn that you know our mayor actually has a day job. What is your day job? Tell us what you do when you're not being mayor.
SPEAKER_00:I serve as vice president of administration for a local engineering company. It's called Gallo and Associates, and I've been there for 30 years, which sounds crazy because I sometimes don't think I'm much beyond 30. But I've worked there for this 30 years and grown with the company, and I manage the HR department and I do business development and marketing and manage the administration for the office as well. And it's a great company. We were recently bought by a larger company. So last couple of years have been a little had a little more challenges than the first 28 or so because 28, first 28 was all kind of the same. But now we've entered into a different world with different opportunities and stuff, and it's just fun. We do we design automotive plants, and the people that work there are like family and the industry is good, and it's just uh it's been a good place to be. It's close to 15 minutes from where I am at home, so that's kind of a nice thing. It's also good for meetings and ribbon cuttings and other opportunities that I have that I get to do as being the mayor. They're very very flexible with me with my time, so it allows me the ability to do the extras, which I enjoy doing as serving as mayor. So it's a really good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So tell us. I always like to I'm a I'm a reader. Yeah, I I I consume information all the time. Podcasts and books, and lately I've been on a book craze again, listening to stuff on Audible. So, for example, I'm reading Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam right now, which some people may remember that book. What what are you reading these days? Where are you getting your information? What what's on your bedside table, as we say, or what are you playing in your car on your way to work in the morning?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I have two very interesting things that I'm really focusing in on as far as reading goes right now. One is a book, Tip and Me, an old political book that I'm Tip O'Neill.
SPEAKER_01:Is it about Tip O'Neill?
SPEAKER_00:Tip O'Neill, yeah. I'm enjoying that one. And then I also have, I've just really been studying Psalms lately. So I'm kind of really fixated on Psalms 91, which says he who dwells in the presence of the most high is sheltered under his wings, and that's the Paula version, not the script version. But I'm really being intentional about finding words that uplift me and can carry me through the things the world is throwing at all of us that just give me inspiration. But I also like to see how former people live their lives, and I really like books about relationships, uh, whether they be political, social, or you know, familial or just plain old any, I mean any kind of a relationship. Those are the kind of things that really interest me.
SPEAKER_01:Who wrote the Tip in Me book?
SPEAKER_00:I can't remember offhand who it is, but I'll I'll pass it off to you. I've got about a little bit more to go.
SPEAKER_01:Everybody's like pulling out their phones and putting it in their Amazon app right now to see see where to find it.
SPEAKER_00:Then they're going, why? Why would you pick that one? But I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Didn't Tip O'Neill coin the phrase all politics is local? Is that Tip O'Neill?
SPEAKER_00:I think it was him, yes. I think actually, I think I got this book from one of the Clausen book sales. I pick up a lot of books at the book sales from the friends of the library. I would suggest that for everyone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I donate books to that. So you know, if you like what I read, you might get it if you go to the book sale.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but how do you actually give a book away? Books are like they're part of you once you've read them.
SPEAKER_01:Physics. Like for us, yeah. You know, you can only fit so much stuff in your in your space, and then something's gotta go. So we we had a garage sale this summer. Uh we had 15 boxes of books.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01:That we are just like, they gotta go. Yeah. I mean, we we have to live in this house. It's not a house for books, it's for people. So speaking of houses, sometimes I think of Clausen is like one big household. You know, we got several thousand people here that could run for office. 14 of those people raised their hand and said, Yeah, I'll run this time. You're one of those 14. You probably know more about being in office than most people. So why? Why you and why now?
SPEAKER_00:I like how you said why, and then I like you how you said why you. Yeah. That's very good.
SPEAKER_01:That's uh that's only because I know you, yeah, and I know from talking to you what it's like to be in office. So somebody is running for the first time, it comes out a little different, right? But for somebody who's actually experienced, it's like why.
SPEAKER_00:I think I think it's kind of because you it's like it's kind of like having a plant that you've nurtured and you don't want it to to frizzle up and drop and die, right? You want to continue nurturing it and making it get bigger and healthier and stronger. And I feel like with all the upheaval we've had in our community for the past many years, for varying reasons, the turnover we had at City Hall really wreaked havoc on our community. It allowed for just stagnancy in how we could get things done. It was it killed the spirits of the people who work here, and it didn't allow for growth and for expansion and for like planning for the future. And over the past three years, I think we've been very intentional. We have a very strong city manager who has a very strong vision, and he he's working well with council to carry out what the vision that we put forth to him because it is our responsibility to give him the vision. But he's a good team player with his team. He has, you know, strong rules that people need to follow, but it's for a reason, it's to get things done. And I think there's been so much shakeup for so many years, and it's just not a good stability that it was really critical to have someone in that role who could lead strong. And I think the council that we have currently supports him and sees his vision and is able to go ahead and go along with that. So my campaign mantra this year is momentum, stability, consistency, and continuity. And um it's critical. It just really is critical right now. We we passed the bond, we together, all of us residents, passed that bond. That's a commitment for us to take those dollars and put them somewhere that will do what we all have aspiration for, which is to fix our streets. I happen to live on a street that is far down on the list of order of getting things done, but I'm really happy when I drive on another street that I know is has been completed and makes that part of my path of life much better. I think I'm concerned. What really pushed me to run is that I was concerned that if if we had different leadership, perhaps the goals that were set would not be maintained. And I just don't want to see Flossen go backwards. I don't want to see a new city manager in place. I don't think we can afford another roughly$250,000 to change heads at the at the helm. I think it would be detrimental to this community. And I'm I'm I'm giving up my time and I'm making a commitment of another four years if the presidents select me to ensure that what we started gets finished. And I have no plans on sitting in that seat forever, but the time right now is just not a good time to change in my uh eyes.
SPEAKER_01:Educate the public real quick here. You the$250,000 figure. Some people listening to this may be like, what's she talking about right there?
SPEAKER_00:So fill them in. Yes, if we were so if you know in the past we've had probably I the number is eight to ten, because it depends on who's who's counting whom and how many times we're counting one person. Eight to ten people in the city manager seat in the past six to eight years. None of them left on by choice, many of them left by a council decision to clean house. And that costs us money. Whether it was a contract, there was a contract associated, and we had to pay a contract out, or if it was just recruitment and the cost of hiring a new employee, it's not inexpensive. So at this point, I think if we this city manager has a contract, and if we have to pay him out, it's gonna be costly, and then you have to add those other fees. And I don't have an exact fee, but it's definitely the two to two fifty two hundred to two hundred and fifty thousand dollar range to have him gone. And I can't say that anyone for sure is gonna want to do that, right? I can't, I wouldn't do that, but I do know there's enough speculation. I do know that when people don't work together with you when you're sitting next to them for a couple of years, they're probably not gonna encourage be encouraged to have you stay. And there's just enough conversation out there that makes it seem like that would be a possibility, and that's not a possibility for me. Those are my dollars. As much as people were upset over the vote we had in May to revisit the number of seats on city council that cost us in excess of$20,000. I am I've always been extremely fiscally responsible with our dollars because I like to think of them as my dollars as well. And I don't go out buying things regular price if I know I can get it on sale and I have to love, love, love something in order to want to buy it at regular price. I feel like I was okay with that expenditure because it was giving residents a voice on something that we really did hear a lot of conversation about. That was one bone of contention that people had about an all-or-nothing charter. The charter in itself, there were some good changes to it. There were some very necessary changes to it. And there are a lot also some changes that we're realizing that we need ordinances for, and we're working on those things, and those are not things you can do overnight, but we're there. But the cost to move a person out of a job is crazy. And I've never, in all of my years, and all of those city managers, I never supported one paying one person out. I never voted to let someone to remove someone, starting with Mark Pollack and all the way through the list. I didn't vote for any of those. I did not support that. I don't support that kind of leadership, I don't support that kind of human resource policies. I don't support like eviscerating your public that way. Like they're part of our community. I think they all deserved a little bit more than they were given on their way out the door. And that's not really the question, but it it has to do with the dollars and cents, and it's a heavy thing. It's it's something that's cost this community, not just the cost that we paid these people and paid the firms to come in and replace them. That's a very costly thing. It it was also the cost of us not being able to move forward and not having progress in development and in getting our roads fixed and having stable people in our city departments. It's it's it all fits together.
SPEAKER_01:Somebody asked me this week, you know, why why do why does the city council give a city manager such a huge buyout? And what I explained to them is that being a city manager is a really volatile job because you are employed by people who are elected to office, some of whom may not serve for very long or may not have much experience. And so city manager contracts, this in this day and age, are written with big buyouts because a city manager's job is way less secure than the ordinary person's job is, and you would have a hard time hiring a city manager without putting the buyouts into their contract. That's just the name of the game in the city management profession. A lot of people don't know that. So somebody's like, why would the city council give this, you know, put a buyout uh amount of that much in a city manager because otherwise you couldn't get someone to sign a contract to come work with your city. And in all fairness, just the way it works.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's an he would not get that$250,000, right? His his contract is not that great. I'm not even gonna say what it is, but any anyone who saw it would say, Well, that's substantial. Why would you do that? But we did it. Well, I think I didn't actually support it back then because I thought it is a lot, but I did he did he did whatever he proposed to us, we beat it down a little bit and he didn't get exactly what he wanted, but he does have a very fair package, and for the reasons you mentioned, but also for this very important reason, which is he came in a time in at a time where we had just replaced a slew of city managers in a very short period of time. So he needed security because he was coming to a community that really wasn't giving him the impression that there would be any. So it's a you know, it was it's our fault in all fairness. It was our fault because we created the situation. But I'm glad we got him. He's done a really great job. He's bringing a he's built a really solid team. I look at downtown and how we've made inroads with the DDA and the City of Clausen administration. Things are getting done here for the business owners. You know, crash is getting picked up better, and we have some plans for new decoration for the winter. And I don't know, the the beautification efforts are good. And look, Clausen was always maintained well. I would not say that there was a problem, but there are always ways to improve. And if you had good communication between the entities that have to work together to get these things done, it's success for everyone. And I'm I'm really proud of the things he's done.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, good. Well, let me go back to the Tip O'Neill uh title again, and this may not be your answer to the question, but who do you look who who are your role models in public service? Like who do you want to be like as an elected official in Kloss? And who do you look at and say, that's my that's my role model right there?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I'm not really worldly. I don't look at people. I'm I'm I'm pretty clear that I don't look at people to say I want to be like them. I just don't. I have a mom who's amazing, amazing Christian woman who raised six kids and loved the Lord through all of it, even through hard times and worked hard jobs and sometimes worked multiple hard jobs and was always faithful and was always uplifting to us. And even when she was doing annoying things like putting Bible verses on the refrigerator that say things like soft answer turneth away wrath and harsh words stir up anger to get us to stop yelling at each other. Um, I had a dad who served in Pontiac City Council for a couple of terms and was a very influential man at Gentle Motors and loved his career and was a very hard worker and very diligent. And I have, I don't know, my husband's a really hard worker. He doesn't have he chose a career that he enjoys and he gets frustrated in, but he works really, really hard. And then I have my daughter who has lots of degrees and is figuring her way out in life and was a homeowner early and works really hard, and then a son who, same thing, you know, he's educated, he has his own place now and works really hard. I'm I I'm I'm more focused on ensuring that those people in my God are pleased with my service and the words and that I speak and the actions that I have than I am about trying to find someone to emulate because the minute you focus on a person, you then notice their flaws. And I have lots of flaws, right? Like anybody who has watched me all these years, like man, she's this, this, this, and this. And I have physical flaws. Like we all have them, but I don't want to be known for those things. I want to be known for trying to be kinder to people and trying to be patient with people and trying to understand and trying to do my homework and just being engaging and uh bringing people together. Those are the things I want. And like people, I don't know, I don't have a I just don't have a role model. I mean, I could do the easy thing and say I want to be like Jesus, but I guess what I really want is to be pleasing to Jesus. And I know this is going to annoy a lot of people that I'm talking about religion throughout this, but it is who I am. I mean, I love God, I love my family, and I love our country, and I'm, you know, those are the things that fuel me in everything that I do. And I guess I can't apologize for them. So I would love to say, like, I find I'm I admire people in their actions and their perseverance and their ability to deal in hard times when people are less than gracious to them, those would be my role models, you know, and anyone who can be inspiring to someone and just make them the others feel good around them, the lesser then feel good around them, those would be my role models. But to give you a list, I just can't do that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well then let's get down to the nitty-gritty governing the city of Claus. And what is one thing about how the city works that the public ought to know, but most folks don't know? And how might we change that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so the first thing is really simple. And I we had the League of Women Voters event last night, and listening to many people give really, really great answers and ideas for ways to address issues we have in this community. I think the most important thing is knowing what you can and can't do. Like the city council is a an advisory board, basically. We make policy, we direct the city policy to give to the city manager, we oversee the budget, you know, the planning of the budget, which then gives the city manager the opportunity to direct programming and figure out programming and stuff. We can't really do anything. I've said this so, so many times. Like one of the biggest frustrations I have in serving is when you get a call or an email for the 18th time from someone who's having problems with their water, with their neighbor, or with you know, something on the street in front of them. And I can't just call DPW or anybody and say, hey, go fix that pothole. Go make sure that water stops pooling in this these people's basement. I don't have we don't have the ability to do that. We have connections, we can make relationships, and that's really our role. I think that's the biggest misconception people have in thinking that me as mayor that I have some magic string and then I have some power, but I can. I we rely on our city manager and our administration to deal with all of the issues that we are all dealing with on a day-to-day basis. And I think that's the biggest misconception of local politics for sure, is like whose responsibility is it to actually get things done for us?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So let's uh let's talk about challenges. I want you to pick what one of the biggest, most consequential challenges you think that's facing us right now in Clausen. And then put on your teacher hat and take us to class. What are the root causes of that challenge? What's feeding into it, and what might our city government and residents do together to meet that challenge head on over the next few years?
SPEAKER_00:So there's so many, there's so many challenges, but I think I think we're in a good place right now as far as the challenges that we have. My personal favorite, I could go obvious and say relationships, but I think those issues are gonna always be here. I think some of it is just it's how people behave and they wanna, they, they want the they want the situation the way it is because it's kind of fun and because it's interesting, and because it's challenging. But that's not the challenge I want to pick. I want to pick in our community right now, we have limited resources. We are on an uptick for development. And my personal concern with all of this is we only have what we have. And once we release it, we will never have it again because we only have so much vacant land and we can only develop so many buildings. My concern is that we don't give our stuff away. That we don't hold on to it so that it's not hold on to it to a point where it's not desirable, but that we don't give it away and that we're really careful with deciding how much density we want in certain areas and what kind of what kind of developments do we want? Do we need more apartments or townhouses or you know any multifamily dwelling? Or should we concentrate more on single-family homes in different areas or go to something different? Those are my biggest concerns, maybe that and the traffic here. Should we do a road diet, which also goes with that? If you take, if you add something in, you're taking something away. So at what point do we shift what we've had traditionally? The class is very traditional, right? In the way we want to operate, but also in the way that we are formed and looking at the potentials that are on the horizon that could alleviate some of the stress that we have, but then also cause a different kind of stress at the other on the other side. Just managing the resources is really the number one thing. And I think the most important way to for us to do that as a community is to engage with the residents, engage with the small businesses that are already here. I was really concerned with the development that's going into PNC. I'm really happy to see a development there. I mean, nobody wants to look at that building there forever, but I didn't want it to be so large that it, that it its footprint caused a problem to the many businesses that have poured into that area for so long that are already fighting for parking and other issues. So I think uh collaboration so that in a development like that, I'm just using that as an example, the residents don't feel the pinch of people flying down their streets once it's occupied by a hundred people or whatever, and that the residents aren't feeling it in the traffic flow, and that the businesses aren't losing out on opportunity of business because now we have so many people there, they're gonna, of course, go to the municipal lot because it's right next door and take over. So that's that's that's one of the biggest challenges I think we have is just managing our growth. And the best way to mitigate that is just to engage with all of the entities and then figure out what the best option is for everybody, not just the developer and the people who will be coming to town.
SPEAKER_01:I struggled with that a little bit on the zoning board of appeals. We had we had some developers come to us, and we're a front porch community here in Clausen. So the the ordinance ordinance is set up so that houses have a lot of front, like a front porch or the uh the front door is sidewalk forward, right? So that neighbors can see each other and you see people passing on the sidewalk. And that is important to the culture of a community. But these developers wanted to put in what is called a pygnose house, which is a garage forward house. So the front door is back behind the garage, the garage is forward. And the zoning board of appeals was asked to say, okay, we're gonna we're gonna allow you, we're gonna make an exception to the rules for you to build these houses. And the discussion is always, well, don't we want new people to move into our community? Isn't it better to have a new house rather than a vacant lot? And because our lots in Claussen are long and skinny, because there used to, you know, there were small houses built on those lots, it's really hard to design a house with a garage with an attached garage. The garage isn't in the front. And so we struggled with that, and I struggled with it myself because I understood both sides. And I feel like that may be kind of what you're talking about, because every time it comes up, you know, we're going to build some more apartments downtown. That adds to density and it increases the number of residents we have. But I guess I'm asking you to riff on this a little bit because I don't know if the average person, I certainly didn't before I was on the ZBA, thinks about there's always a consequence, right? And unintended consequences. And so you've been on the inside looking at this for years now. The challenge, why is it so consequential? I mean, could you unpack it just a little bit more on that development angle?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's I think it it goes back to the fact that it is impactful on many entities. It's not just the developer, and it's it, it's every single person that's going to be around it, and it's every person who's gonna drive up and down the street, and you know, which one's most important to meet. I I go back and forth with do we make sure that the residents who are already here and are already paying feel the most comfortable with whatever we're doing. Yeah, we that project, for example, they gave a 10-year tax abatement. And I was not for the 10-year tax abatement. I'm like, our residents aren't getting a tax abatement. I mean, I'm all for development. I want development. I'm for helping someone make sure they can do a project here that's gonna it benefits all of us. We need progress. I'm not opposed to progress. I'm just not for big. Like, let's be incremental, let's protect us before we grab the shiny thing. If you have kids, you know, you go to a store and they want the if there's something shiny hanging and something that's uh they want the shiny one. Of course they want the shiny one. I feel like sometimes we're like that too. And our our quest to like make what we have so much better and maybe like another community, like one of our surrounding communities. That's another issue we have here. Why don't we do this? Royal Oak does this, uh Hazel Park's doing this now, Ferndale's doing this now, they do this in Troy, they do this in Birmingham. We don't want to be those things, right? They all have unique character. Clausen has its unique character too, and I think part of the issue is developing within the character that is uniquely clausen. And clausen is not large, you know. We have height limits for buildings for a reason because people don't want the impression that you're outside of the neighborhood. And also you don't want huge height because the people who live nearby don't really want someone looking over into their backyard while they're swimming or their kids are out playing, you know, it's all of those things. And I think everything seems simple on paper, right? You can read it and you're like, oh, they want to put a development in and it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course that'll be great. It's gonna bring 80 people here and they're gonna go shop our restaurants and go to the bars and go to the little stores. It's gonna be wonderful for everyone, but is it gonna be wonderful for everyone? Because what are the spillover effects of this? And I think if you look around Clauston in the past several years, we've had some wonderful development. I think our downtown is looking great. I think the hair salon, the Peter Mark studio down the street looks so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:In the old bump shop.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and it's so great. And that was such a great building, right? I know when I was on planning, people came before and wanted it for something. And for years, people have been wanting that and there were issues with it, but I think that they developed it in a way that's just amazing. I went to there's a medical office on 15 mile road that just opened. They did a beautiful job with their property. You know, we have a lot of places that are just they're they're putting the effort in. The it looks good, it's inviting for our community. It gives people who are driving through a reason to want to come here. But I think the number one thing is is knowing that everything has a spillover and everything has every plus is gonna have a minus somewhere, right? There's a detraction with everything because you're always giving something up. Everything is not a a win-win-win. But I think we've done a pretty good job of ensuring that most of the wins are good for most of us, right? That they're the it has they have the least consequences for potential issues. Yeah. It's difficult though.
SPEAKER_01:It is difficult. Yeah. So let's flip the coin over. We talked about a challenge. What do you think is maybe one of the biggest opportunities before us here in Clausen and do the same thing. Talk about unpack that opportunity for us, why you think it's such a big opportunity, and what might our city government and residents do over the next few years to capitalize on that opportunity?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I think kind of what we were just talking about is also an opportunity because we are going to see our landscape change somewhat. But I also think, but I I think the things we've been doing in council and with our city manager over the last couple of years, building relationships between the school district and the city and the DDA and the Chamber of Commerce and all of our service organizations and our religious organizations, they are all being encouraged and fed the opportunity to promote their promote what they do. And not just promote what they do, but partner with us when we are doing things. And I think that's bringing opportunity for all of our residents and for our community for greater exposure and for hopefully some cost savings on some programming and activities throughout. And it just is going to give a bigger picture of what Clausen really does have to offer because there are people here who don't know we have a senior center and they don't know they can go there for like a I don't know what the cost is, a less than$5 a day lunch that's decent and they have great people there who prepare the food and serve it for them. And it's a really beautiful atmosphere and it's very, very community, and that's an opportunity for people. I think there are people that don't know we have parks and rec that has programming for kids, and you can go do chair aerobics or things like that. We they don't know the programming that our library puts on. They just did a a children's stuffed animals sleepover where people could take their stuffed animals to the library and lock them in for the night and then go back the next day and get them. They do really great, cutesy things, you know, for young people and older people. I think that the communication tools with the magazine that has been started, a quarterly magazine, that's a partnership between the schools and the city, that's great. They have the they blast out weekly messages. And I think that even though it's not about a thing, it's about everything because it's all about clausen. It's opportunity to participate, to engage, and just to know what's going on here. And I really think I'm excited about that because that's going to build. And I think that shows great opportunity for our community.
SPEAKER_01:What's one thing that you think would improve how city council functions in service to the people of Clausen? And I mean this apart from personalities and how they manifest, you have no control over that. What changes to practices on city council might lead the council to better represent the desires and needs of the people and better at deliberating and deciding on the people's business?
SPEAKER_00:I think maybe sometimes we need like a town hall or something to actually talk about things. You know, the hunter, not hunter, the rental apartments as an example. It was brought up at city council a couple of times, and we talked about it last night in the event, but there's a conversation about whether or not we should sell rental apartments that houses a very few amount of people. The reasoning is because it's an older building, the property is not ADA, and they're concerned about just issues that may happen with that, and also thinking that should the city be responsible and take the funds that are there and put it into other senior fundings that would serve a greater population. So this came up, and as a from a business standpoint, you could very easily say, take the numbers of one in one pile, the numbers of the other in the other pile, and go, these are all of our dollars. Of course, we're gonna go for the larger number because this these dollars should be split up for everyone. But I personally felt that even though that might be the right answer, that we couldn't really move on that until we had conversation with the people who live there and that we know what would be done if the property were sold, where those dollars would go. I think that's a perfect example of just engagement and how we need to ensure that we that residents are comfortable with what we are doing and they understand why. They understand the pluses and the minuses. And then part of that component was I don't want to make a determination until we know what will happen with those people. Yeah. I'm not for just saying you got a place until June 30th. I don't think that's I don't think that's, you know, we're the little city with the big heart. I think we we should treat each other like family. I think we should have plans. And I, and not that the community the city's not doing that. I'm not saying that they're not. I think in the future something's gonna happen with all of that, with that whole topic. But I think that's the perfect example of not jumping. Because it would have been very easy on that night to just go, yeah, it's a financial thing, and it doesn't make sense to support this small 15, 17 people, and we have you know 12,000-ish over here. Like it's a cut and dry thing, but it's not always about that. Sometimes it's about there's more to it. There's there's people involved, and town hall for that would be perfect, or a town hall for a lot of things come before planning and they do send out notices, but honestly, it's not all city council's fault. People aren't engaged, they trust that the government is doing what they're supposed to when their roads are plowed, when their leaves get picked up, when their garbage gets picked up regularly, whether if there's a water main break, if that gets fixed in a quick amount of time, residents are content because those are the things that they ultimately rely on the community for. Anything outside of that is, you know, our police department is here, they're great, our fire department is phenomenal. They're here. They take care of us when they need them, when we need them. They show up for all of our local events. So we know we have them because they participate and they're very engaged with our community. So I think most residents are just comfortable, comforted in that. And they don't think about the extra. They don't think that they have that they actually have input on what may or may not happen, and what kind of growth and development we have or where we spend our dollars or where we focus our our ideas, even though every meeting is open. And it's just, I think it's a cultural thing. I think people just don't show up until they have an issue, yeah, for for the most part. And it's not because they're bad, it's because they're busy. That's right. And it's because you we put you there and we trust you to do that. And it also goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is what the role of city council is. It's not we don't have a magic wand and we're not able to address those issues for them. We're a conduit for communication and pointing people in the right direction and hopefully sharing the values that you have. We get, I'm assuming we all get emails, and sometimes they're good and sometimes they're not good. I've been chastised and I've been praised, and it all is valuable, but people need to engage more. And I think maybe just giving the opportunity, maybe making an opportunity for quarterly or maybe semi-annual events where you just host, hey, what's on your mind in this community, and we do that. And I think we could do that with the schools and the city because people don't understand the separation there either. They assume that if it's the land, you know, the Shalm thing, they think it's all the city, but it's not. It was it was Sha it was the school district. And I think there's just not a lot of knowledge about who's responsible for what. That's true. But I think ultimately it's the people trust uh that what uh the these entities are doing is in their best interest and they just let them roll with it until they have an issue.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I've always I've read somewhere once that most people want their city government to be invisible until there's a problem and and then they want them to be Johnny on the spot. So I want to end this talking about something.
SPEAKER_00:Wait, we have to end this.
SPEAKER_01:This is so fun. Oh well, thank you. Thank you. The coffee is good, and but this air conditioning is working very well on my lower half. There's a vent like right under the table and it kicks on once in a while, and it's like woof, this rush of cold air up my up the legs of my pants. So the fun question is, and everybody is listening, if anybody listens all 14 of these, they're gonna hear this like 14 times. But I have to set up the question. So, Tracy, my wife, you know, we live near Claussen City Park, and we'll drive, we'll drive by there around Christmas time, and it's just this big dark expanse. And Tracy's just like, you know what'd be awesome is if we just filled that entire park with Christmas lights. Just like put Christmas lights on all the trees, turn it into like this winter wonderland, you know. And yeah, if only we had the energy and the money and the time to do that. And so it's just like this big idea that if we ever won the lottery, you know, we would, and we don't play the lottery because you know it's against our our church. But anyway, we uh we'd put Christmas lights in the park every Christmas. What's let's say money were no issue, and the city came into a a huge sum of money from a benefactor or whatever, to do a to do something for the people of Clawson, to to build something, to start a program, something that's just for the enjoyment of the city. So don't don't think like roads and infrastructure and all that. Think fun. It's fun money to do something fun for all the people. What would you do?
SPEAKER_00:Well, first I like your idea about decorating the park, and I think we could do that. I have so many battery-operated lights you would not believe. But I took it upon myself to start decorating the gazebo at the library for I started it with 4th of July. I've gone through many iterations of decorations, but this year I bought the best buntings that will be back next year. So I've done it for Memorial Day, 4th of July, and then I also do it at Christmas. I go out and buy fresh greens, and I've bought all kinds of lights and they are good to go. And I make fresh bows every year because, like you, you see something and you're like, we could do more, we could do better. So that's not patting myself on the back. That's you see something, you do something, right? And I've had friends help me several times, and we just make it fun. And it's just something you drive by in your community and you're happy for. If I could do one thing or create one thing here, I would love for us to have a community center that fits the needs of every infant through every octagenarian. I just think it would be so amazing to have something that's light and bright and welcoming, a place where you could go and do a craft, or you could have a kitchen and make have a kitchen project, or you have, you know, a place to do running around and small classrooms. And I I that is what I would love. I would love just a place where people could come together. And I would I envision that with open green space somewhere too, so you could have little concerts there. Because I love twice a year when the Friends of the Library sponsors the part, the music in the gazebo. Yeah, that's community, you know, or when they do it, the Lions, I think it's the Lions who sponsor it at from Fourth of July in the park. I would love something like that, you know, that people a place for people to come together to create more community. So whether yeah, both the indoor and outdoor component, and then of course we decorate it for all the seasons because that would be really fun. And I don't know, I I think that's something that's kind of missing. I mean, we have it in a capacity. Could we approve on it? Of course. And if I could do one thing, that's what I would do, and I would just make it so it meets every person of every type of ability's need to be there so that it's inclusive. And I don't know, it would just be a great meeting place. I would love that.
SPEAKER_01:Good stuff, yeah. Also good, Kave Cafe. We've been sitting here enjoying a couple of a cup of tea and a latte, and we thank folks here for hosting us. Mayor Paula Milan running for re-election. Whoever wins, there are two people running. Whoever wins will be the first mayor in history to be elected to a four-year term. And uh, Madam Mayor, thank you for having coffee with us today.
SPEAKER_00:Brad, thanks for the good questions and the good companionship. Always fun to chat with you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening to this episode of Coffee with Clausen Candidates. Remember to check out the other 13 Clausen candidates in the other 13 episodes. And if you found this podcast to be valuable to you, please share it with a neighbor in Clausen. Don't forget to support our local sponsors who made this podcast possible. Special thanks to Blair Memorial Public Library, the Clausen Historical Museum, and Cave Cafe, all in Clausen, for letting us record 13 of the 14 episodes at their locations. Make sure you go visit every one of them and tell them thank you. The Coffee with Clausen Candidates Podcast is written, directed, hosted, recorded, and edited by B.T. Irwin, and produced by James Flanagan at Podcast Your Boice Studios in Southfield. Visit the Clausen City Elections page at cityofclausen.com to learn how, when, and where to cast your ballot this fall. We'll post a link in the show notes. Get out there and vote, Clausen. Until next time, grace and peace to you and all your Clausen neighbors.
