Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Have a cup of coffee with candidates for elected offices in Clawson, Michigan, this fall 2025. Clawson resident and former Clawson City Charter Commission member BT Irwin sits down for friendly and relaxed conversations with all 14 candidates, asking them questions that shine the light on their Clawson stories, their character, and what they imagine and plan for Clawson (and how they will bring it about if they get into office). These interviews reveal the candidates as they really are (and not as they appear to be in campaign literature and soundbites).
Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Glenn Shepard, candidate for Clawson City Council
Glenn Shepard is a longtime Clawson resident who is a familiar sight to those who follow kids sports around town. He is an incumbent member of Clawson City Council since 2021 and is running to keep one of four seats.
For your hometown Clawson real estate needs, get KW Domain certified Realtor Erin Redmond at eredrealestate@gmail.com or call (586) 242-8419.
Expecting and new parents, certified postpartum doula and pediatric sleep coach Lynn Eads can help you and your new baby settle into your life together. Learn more at learnwithlynne.com.
Get out and vote, Clawson! Learn all about how, when, and where to vote by clicking here or call (248) 435-4500x118.
Friends, hello, I'm B.T. Irwin, your neighbor in Clausen for 13 years now. Welcome to Coffee with Clausen Candidates, a limited podcast series that gives each candidate for Clausen City Council and Mayor their own episode. These are in-depth, but relaxed conversations in which all 14 candidates reveal their hearts, minds, and personalities. More on that in a minute or two. First, please know that the information you're hearing in this introduction is the same for all 14 episodes. So if you already heard it when listening to another episode, you don't have to listen to it again. Just skip straight to the interview. If this is your first episode of Coffee with Clausen candidates, I think the information I'm about to share with you in this introduction will help you understand the election coming up in Clausen this fall and how this podcast can help you choose who will get your votes. Before we get to that, you may want to know who is hosting this show and whether he's fit for your time and trust. Now, I'm not a professional journalist, but I do have a lot of experience interviewing public figures for the Christian News Organization where I work part-time. More important to Clausen folks like you, however, is my unusual level of involvement in Clausen government over the last few years. It started in 2020 when I accepted an appointment to the Zoning Board of Appeals. In November 2021, I was elected to the Clausen City Charter Commission, where I served until the people of Clausen adopted the revised city charter we proposed in November 2023. Through those experiences, I've gotten to know Clausen City government and many of the people who work in it. So that's me. Now let's talk about the election happening in Clausen this fall, 2025. This is your crash course. If you didn't know, this year's Clausen City election is historic for at least two reasons. First, it is the first general election to take place after the adoption of the revised city charter in November 2023. This fall, our city council is expanding from one two-year mayor and four at large four-year members to one four-year mayor and six four-year members. Second, if the fourteen candidates running for city offices in Clausen this fall are not a record, I'd like to see an election where more candidates ran. I can't imagine that we've ever had this many people running for office at the same time in Clausen. So this is a big election with lots of candidates running for more seats than Clausen has ever had on its city ballot. There are a total of six seats up for election in what will be a seven seat city council come November twenty twenty five. I think it can get confusing, so I'm going to break it down for you. First, the office of mayor is up for election. The mayor chairs the city council and is a voting member of it. Until now, Clausen's mayor always served a two-year term. The revised charter, however, changes the mayor's term to four years to match the other members of city council. Whoever the people of Clausen elect as their mayor this fall will serve from November 2025 to November 2029. Two candidates are running for mayor incumbent mayor Paula Milan, who has been in office since 2021, and Clausen City Councilmember Sue Moffitt. Next, there are four at-large city council seats up for election. Two of those seats are existing seats with expiring terms. Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd occupy those seats, which they won as the top two vote getters in the November 2021 election. The two existing seats are for four-year terms, running from November 2025 to November 2029. And then there are two new seats that the revised city charter adds to the city council this year. Of the ten candidates running, the top four vote getters will take the four at-large seats. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, 2025 to 2029. But the fourth place vote getter will serve only two years until 2027. This will happen only once. In 2027, that seat will become a four-year term like all the others. The revised charter calls for this unusual arrangement so that the City Council eventually gets on a cycle of four of its seats being up for election every four years, and three of its seats being up for election every four years on a rotating basis. So in review, there are four at-large city council seats up for election this fall twenty twenty-five, two of them existing and two of them new. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, and the fourth place vote getter will serve a two-year term. The ten candidates running for those four seats are incumbents Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd, and challengers George Georges, Scott Manning, Meredith Peltinen, Billy Rinshaw, Heather Rinkovich, Loris Lowinski, Alex Speeshock, and Scott Tinlin. Are you keeping score? We're up to five seats on the ballot. I said there are six, so here's the last one. Back in the spring, Councilmember Matt Benkowski resigned his seat because he was moving out of the city. Benkowski won his four-year term in November twenty twenty three, so he was to fill his seat until November twenty twenty seven. When a city council member leaves office during her or his term, the revised city charter calls for city council to appoint a replacement who will serve until the next regular city election, at which time the public will elect someone to finish out the full term. Not long after Benkowski resigned, City Council appointed Richard Scott to fill the seat until the November 2025 election. On your ballot, this city council seat will be listed apart from the other four. Whichever candidate gets the most votes for this seat will serve out the rest of Binkowski's term that runs through November 2027. Scott is running to retain the seat for the next two years. Aiden O'Rourke is running to challenge him for it. So now that you know what is up for election in Clausen this fall and who is running, let's get to how this podcast might help you decide who gets your votes. I interviewed all 14 candidates, one episode for each one. I wanted to do something different from the other candidate interviews that are out there. Not to say that those other interviews are not helpful. I think they are quite helpful and I follow them myself. But I find that the usual candidate interview format to be too narrow or too short to really get to know the candidates as people. I like to know where candidates stand on the quote unquote issues, yes, but I really want to know what they know, how and what they think, what makes them tick, who they are as human beings. So I designed these podcast interviews to be friendly and relaxed and full of open-ended questions. I wanted the candidates to feel like they could open up and just talk about what they think is important and why. I also wanted them to be able to talk about themselves, without the pressure of needing to react to questions about issues and one-minute sound bites. I can say that I enjoyed every one of the 14 conversations as I sat across from candidates at places like the Clausen Historical Museum, Blair Memorial Public Library, and Cave Cafe in downtown Clausen. Even interviewed one candidate on her front porch. And I learned a lot from just about every candidate who opened up to me. So I hope you learn a lot too, and that in learning about the candidates, you'll fill out your ballot with confidence and even, dare I say it, joy. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode of Coffee with Clausen Candidates. We're here with uh Glenn Shepherd, who's running for one of four seats on the Clausen City Council this fall of 2025. Glenn and his family have been Clausen residents for about 22 years, even though his family history goes back a lot farther. He may want to tell you more about that in a minute. They've been involved here as long as they've lived here. His kids are part of the Claussen public schools. Glenn's been a part of youth sports scene here. His full disclosure, he was a coach for my son's youth baseball team in uh 2024, won the championship. Glenn accepted an appointment and served for 12 years on the Clausen Planning Commission, including two years as chair. In 2021, he won a seat on the Clausen City Council, where he's now approaching the end of his first term. He's one of two incumbents running for City Council this fall. Glenn, in your campaigning, you've talked a lot about Clausen's heritage and history, so it is fitting that we're having this conversation at the Clausen Historical Museum today. Thank you for making time to chat on a Saturday morning in early September. Good to have you here. I appreciate it. Thank you for doing this. And uh yeah, this is a nice place to start.
SPEAKER_01:My kids will joke the fact that uh they'll probably ask, was I born here back, or do I was, you know, what when I was here, whether or not I was around when the dinosaurs were so but yeah, so our history goes back a long way. So my grandfather came here as a teenager with his sister and his family in the 20s, and ultimately he attended along with his sister to log cabin school. I was 1924 when he graduated, and there was a picture of him and my Aunt Gladys sitting in the lobby of the uh high school. So it's in the the the case that shows all the history of uh of the school, and then log cabin had at that time there weren't yearbooks, but there is a picture of the class, and you'll see my name there, and it's obviously not me, it's my my grandfather. So, but so they lived here during that time. My aunts attended Clausen High School, and then it was just fitting that uh my grandparents had been here since 1961. We often came down and spent a lot of time here, and it was just a no-brainer uh that uh we decided to make this our home back in 19 or uh 2021 or 2001. It's been a long time. So it's 24 years then, right? Let's see. We actually know it was 23. It was three, yep. So, but we have an old house. Uh it was built in 22, and it's over by uh Kenwood. It was about the same time that was built, and you know, I think that uh it may have been as old as this place that we're recording right now. So, you know, I appreciate the history that uh this town has presented and provided for my family, and uh I always keep that in mind when I think about how we should approach what we should be doing for class in the future. That I reminded of of what Cicero had uh one of his famous quotes, and I'll paraphrase because I know I'm gonna get it wrong, that to never learn from the past is to always remain a child. Uh and I think it's important that we do learn and use history as our guide, uh at least as our as a perspective on what we need to be doing uh for the future of Klassen.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. And just for everybody listening to this who may not be familiar, the log cabin school was actually a log cabin, and then they replaced it with a brick building. Where was that located? Log cabin was where the Wendy's is now. On Main Street. Mm-hmm. That's right. Yeah. So between council and school streets, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's right on where school at, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. A lot of people a lot of people around here can still remember the log cabin.
SPEAKER_01:And going back a little bit that you know, that was the only high school accredited uh facility in this area. So that we were actually providing high school education for many residents of Troy.
SPEAKER_00:Is that right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so that's one of those things that when you know the school system was looking at what they needed to do in order to try and remain viable. This is before the bond that they reached out to Troy. And one of the the things that I thought was going to be a a success in in uh joining with with Troy was that we had a long history. That's right. That we actually provided them the infrastructure and the history for their beginning students, you know, a hundred years ago, and that unfortunately they turned their backs on us as a community. And I I I didn't appreciate the way that they did it. The fact that they didn't consider it a history. And certainly, you know, who knows what would have been the outcome of that. But it's again, it's something that we need to consider, right? And we make these decisions that if there are other people that don't want to consider the past, that that's a problem.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, but I think we've I I'm I'm really proud of our schools and way that uh Billy has been able to uh uh have a relationship with her city manager and and something that I was pushing for and having that communication with the schools. But again, and I know that they certainly haven't forgotten the past and that they embrace it, and that's what I really appreciate to see that uh go in there and like I said, see my grandfather's that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:That's really great. So tell us about your day job. And I'm asking this question because I realize that a lot of folks around the community don't realize that their elected officials have day jobs, that they actually go to work every day like everyone else, and then you know, on a Tuesday night, every other Tuesday night, they're in city council chambers, and you're you're working a lot of extra hours in city government, but what do you do during the day for your living? So I'm in automotive sales.
SPEAKER_01:We sell to my main customers are major OEMs and tier one suppliers. So I sell pumps both for mechanical and electric vehicle. So, you know, I I one of the things that we're dealing with right now that is consuming a lot of my time is uh the impact of tariffs on our business. And that uh where does the cost impact from us as the supplier and in the in one of the OEMs as as our customer and ultimately to the end consumer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So there's been that that thing that I've been working on. But it's also been you know an opportunity for me to understand the EV industry and where we're going. So I'm I'm always looking at where's the trend, what's the latest on tariffs, what's happening with the EV industry, where we with the combustion engines and things like that. Because ultimately those will ask those will impact what we do for you know possible decisions that we make is for infrastructure within our city. So who knows what may be happening with EV. Are we in a position where we need to really think about putting in infrastructure for electric vehicles? Or is it going to be let's hold on a second, let's find out what other technologies may be coming that may be better than EV. Who knows what they may be? But what's our strategy on that? And so to say that no, this is the way we're going and this is what it's going to be, and here's the mandate, and this is what we have, we have to be nimble and understand what the market was going to present. Understand also that there's a need and desire from what people have, but that's going to be impactful for what we have for policy decisions within the city.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good thought. How long have you been in automotive sales?
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh, so originally when I first got out of college, I actually worked up in the state senate for a state senator. Is that right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was up there for two years. And then, you know, the the ability to maintain a job was only as long as your your boss can maintain a job. So I my hit family history was in automotive, and you know, there was an opportunity to come back into this area and and get into automotive. So one of the first things I ended up doing was working in customer uh relations for a uh one of the OEMs and understanding firsthand customer complaints. And so you had to listen to a lot of uh of stories that you know were legitimate. Sometimes you had to have hard decisions saying, No, I'm sorry, we can't help you with that, because you know, whether it was warranty or some other circumstance that you know you always wanted to say yes, but you also understood that, you know, we're we're not a charity, unfortunately, and some circumstances that you do have to do, you're responsible for. And so those are hard conversations. But that's also prepared me for a lot of other conversations and decisions that I make that said, like, look, I'd love to do that, right? But we don't have the money and we don't necessarily have the responsibility. So, you know, unfortunately, you don't like to say those things, but those are some of the hard things you need to say. So ultimately that led me to a number of positions within sales within the automotive industry, and that's where I am currently. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I always like to I I read a ton and I consume a lot of information. And I I always like to know what other people are reading and what they're thinking about and from day to day. So what are you getting uh what are what are you putting into your mind these days? What what are you what are you reading or watching or listening to that informs and inspires you? It'll be boring, but uh reading our city minutes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh is that really boring though? Well, no, I mean it's well, this it's fascinating. So I I go back, you know, and in literally, uh, you know, truth be told, on my computer screen at work, I'll always have our city minutes. Yeah, you know, at a moment's notice and say, okay, well, what's happened here is trying to search for something in order to help guide me with the decisions that I'm making. Yeah. Right. To understand, like, okay, what happened, when did it happen, why do we have this, to actually understand there's a reason why that we have what we're having. And, you know, the the the uh Chesterton's fence comes up. I don't know if you're familiar with that that term is is basically if you come across something that you see and you don't understand why it's there, I won't let you destroy that thing or take it down or change it until you tell me why it's there in the first place and a reason why it needs to be removed. Yeah. So and it that was uh an intellectual uh argument uh that uh I can't remember CK Chesterson. I I can't remember the gentleman's first name, but he is a famous literature person. But so and I I try and use that as uh one of the ideas that I have. Let's see, some of the other things that I I read.
SPEAKER_00:And I affirm, by the way, reading the city minutes. I I'm a total nerd, and I I could spend hours looking at this.
SPEAKER_01:And it's not just city our city. I look at Berkeley, I look at Royal Oak, so those that are in our immediate vicinity. Yeah. And I'll also look at literature for for horticulture, too. And so on, interesting. You know, one of the things that I you know people may you know see I talk about a lot are our city trees, our green spaces, impervious and permeable surfaces. That one of the things that I I try to find is like, okay, who's done what that matches to what my values and core beliefs are that I think is important for our community to try and also maintain and preserve. And so I'll go and take a look at Ithaca, New York is a place that I've gone to for certain ideas on what they may be doing. There's and that's just one community out of many. And so I'll look at those minutes and then obviously news articles for what's happening in our community and and some of the other communities. So staying on top of what's happening in Royal Oak will have a surprising immediate impact on what we're doing. Yeah. You know, one of the more recent items was regarding the expansion of sheets at the end of Campbell. It's like, what does that do for us? Right. So there may be some traffic considerations. Yeah. The other thing is that, you know, what did Royal Oak do that, you know, the residents wanted? All right. Is it something that was necessary? I understand in the need for development, but at the same time, I'm also a big proponent of right, right, right thing at the right place, right plant, right place, right building in the right place. Something that's that that will make sense. That you know, when a community is making these decisions, I'm concerned that they may not necessarily be thinking generating generationally as far as their decisions. Anything that I've been uh trying to to decide upon, that what are my grandkids going to have to face with this decision, right? And understand that is just making a change just for change's sake is not necessarily the best path until you can potentially understand what the full impact and replication would be.
SPEAKER_00:So one of my favorite questions in nonprofit community development that I usually ask is what are the unintended consequences of the decision we're about to make here and make people go through a thought exercise of thinking of all the unintended consequences that while the idea, the good idea is just steaming down the tracks and everybody's excited about it to put the brakes on and say, Oh, all right, hold on, what could go wrong here that we haven't thought about first? And are the unintended consequences worth uh, you know, are the the good things we think could come from this worth the risk of the unintended consequences that could come about because of it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you can get into all the permutations as far as on unintended consequences because you can't consider all of them, right? Yeah, that's right. You know, the outcomes are just like water, it will find its path, right? And hopefully you can have encountered and best as possible, but be able to react to that as well. So it there was something else that you mentioned there regarding unintended consequences, and you know, that was kind of you know, I I bright shiny objects. Well, they may be something that is is tangibly excitable, right? That that we can look at something and say, oh, wouldn't that be great here? But hold on a second. You know, I hate to be a wet blanket on this, but okay, what's it gonna do? How's it gonna change? What's it gonna cost? What are the impacts? What are the long range, right? And say, hold on a second, before we start going down this path, like what's going to be the ultimate impact of it? And that's kind of you know, I've had to do that on a number of occasions. And, you know, uh some I've been successful in engaging with the community and other members, whether it be on planning or on city council, and other times I've I've not been successful. You know, one of the ones I was pushing against was the Roth project that's literally on the other side of the street from this parking lot. That I thought it was too much of a concentrated development. The fact that the the way that the building is designed, that literally the back door of the apartments are now on within three feet of the sidewalk. And I had pushed against that. And ultimately the decision from the planning commission was like, no, we're moving forward with it. And then it was ultimately decided by by council that we would move forward with it. Rather, and now we're facing the consequences that it's uncomfortable from some of the residents on Roth to walk down that side of the street if you've got you know lawn chairs that are literally right in front of you as you walk down there. And and again, those are the unintended consequences. So, you know, you could have a rendering from a project that looks fantastic, right? But at the same time, what else are we missing? Right? Ask those other questions, like, okay, why can't you provide a perspective from this angle? Oh, well, because that's not necessarily what we want to show. Yeah, right. Because then you might not want to reprove it, right? Those types of things, right? But those are some of the hard questions you have to ask. At the same time, understand that, you know, I I'm all for development. But again, it goes back to the right proposition for the right location under the right circumstances. So and that there's no reason to rush into any of these projects that we may have. So, and it's also, you know, the city has to be very conscientious and very protective of what we have for our assets. We have limited green space here.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And so to make sure that you know we have a development that respects that and also respects our neighbors. Because we can't keep on going in and having something that's developed and saying, oh, by the way, your zoning doesn't work. We need a instead of a 10-foot uh setback, we need five. And so we'll use this zoning and that zoning, and we'll come in with a planned unit development, and then we'll get whatever we want. And you know, that those are the types of issues that uh I'd like to try and but you know, getting back to the the the question is like those are the types of things that I'm reading in other places. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So spoken like somebody who was on the planning commission for 12 years. Something like that. So like there are several thousand people who are eligible to to run for office here in Clausen, and uh 14 people said, Okay, I'll do it, and you're one of those 14. So uh you're finishing up your first term on city council and you've decided to come back for more. Why you and why now?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I don't think the job's done. There's certain projects that I would like to see that I've tried to champion that I would like to continue. One of them is the tree program that that we've we've tried to start. I was instrumental on the planning commission with redoing our ordinance for our public landscaping. It hadn't been touched since the early 80s and was completely out of out of sync with the current design proposals and standards. And so we went through that and worked with uh the Joe Tenjeri, our city planner, in coming up and crafting a substantial change to our our landscape ordinance. And it was it was passed, and I I I was glad that it took me about 10 years to get to that point. Wow. To get to position that, okay, let's get this on the table, let's move forward. We have all the right people in place that we can be successful with it. And here's the framework for it. And so that was passed, and there was an opportunity to to vote for it on council, and and we were able to move that forward. And one of the things that it does is that it addresses sustainability, biodiversity, and some of the restrictions that we have for some of our locations. And it's really is a guide for our residents to take a look at and see what they can do for their properties as well. Because it was strictly for new developments and public spaces. But that's something I want to try and continue. All right. So we have a number of trees that need to be removed because they're un they're not safe or they're unhealthy at the same time going in and replacing them with the objectives that I've tried to lay forward. And I really appreciate the effort that the city manager and his staff has done in order to try and get this accomplished. But it's not done yet. We have a long way to go. And that's just one of the items. You know, the one of the things too is that I've mentioned is, you know, the historical perspective that I think the council does need somebody that has that history, that understanding of what has been accomplished so that we're not going back with you know, changing everybody that now we're gonna recreate the wheel without anybody saying, Well, hold on a second. Back in 03, this happened and this is the reason why. Right. So if you don't have that tangible, you know, uh you need some veterans on your team. Yeah, yeah. The use of baseball now. Institutional memory, as my wife and I talk about it. Exactly. Absolutely. Right. So, yes, you have a rookie phenom that comes in and throws 101 miles per hour, but at the same time, you've got a crafty left cra crafty left-hander, yeah, you know, who's 41. It's like, well, he knows how to, you know, make sure that you know everybody plays within the game and knows what their capabilities are and can understand, you know, what the objective is and how to get there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that's one of the reasons why. One of the many reasons. The other thing, too, is I want to leave a legacy for my children that they can be proud of that said, yes, the moment the time that my father spent city council was one that I rem it was maybe difficult for me as a kid, and I'm speaking for my kids, obviously, yeah, but to that they they're proud of the what I've tried to accomplish in order to make this a city that they can be proud to be in, that they also can in the future raise their families and help sustain our community and having that long-term growth with those families that have been there for many, many generations.
SPEAKER_00:Aaron Powell The next generation of shepherds in Clausen. So could you name one or two people after whom you would most like to resemble how you go about the work of being an elected public official? What about their habits and style appeals to you?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell I'm gonna go obscure and say my old chief of staff boss, when I was working in the state senate, Dan Gafstison, I really admired the way he ran our office. He was a uh county executive in Livingston County, and he went on to become a uh a state representative. He was approachable, he was very knowledgeable. There wasn't a question regarding legislation that couldn't get past him, and he was very likable. But he also knew how to get things done and could make decisions quickly and and that were based on sound rationale. And you know, that's and I'd like to try and maintain an approachable, you know, viewpoint with the residents that you know, while I may not necessarily be active on social media, certainly if anybody has anything that they want to you know approach me with on the street or you know, by way of email, I am always open to have those conversations. They may be a little long-winded, you may get tired of the conversation, but I'm more than willing to have that. And so to share my opinions on that. Because it's it's a matter of respect, right? So I think being able to listen, having respect for somebody else and their different opinions, but at the same time, you uh as an elected official and just as a resident, I also expect that you'll have the same respect for the opinions that I have. We're never going to agree on everything, and that's that's not even a society that I would want to live in, right? But we should have different opinions and being able to have that with our residents and with our elected officials is an important thing. And and that was one thing that I always remembered from Dan and having that perspective. So, but uh Yeah, I uh local leaders around here, perhaps I would say uh Sheriff Bruchard, I really admire the way that he's conducted himself as our uh as our county sheriff, and I knew him a little bit when he was a state senator when I was working up in the state senate offices and respected what he did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I you've kind of touched on this theme a little bit, and I can empathize with it having been on the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Charter Commission, is sometimes it surprised me how little regular citizens didn't not know how city government works or their own power within their city. And so if there was one thing that you wish one thing that you believe our residents in Clausen really ought to know a lot about, but maybe they don't know, and you wish there was a way for them to learn it, what would that be and how might uh how might we educate our residents better on that particular aspect of city government?
SPEAKER_01:I would say just that the understanding our form of government. So the form of government for our city is the one that we have a strong city manager and a weak city council. So that while I sit in the pleasure of the residents, I I I don't have the ability to change day to day operations. I can Request audience and I can request conversations with staff and relay my opinions, and they'll certainly have their exchange with me regarding policy and what we need to do. But that's part of what I think a lot of people don't understand that, you know, as far as being mayor or a city council member, we don't have the influence on the day-to-day operations within the city. At the same time, you know, understand that uh when when things come up that it's important to follow some of the other committees, as you were mentioning regarding ZBA. I don't know how many we've had this year, maybe one or two. But that's an important part to understand, like, okay, so here's the path that somebody has if they have a grievance with the city that you can go down, you know, it has to do with property, obviously, but that you can go through and and appeal to another branch of our government that to have your redress and whether or not you're successful or not, you know, that's an area. The other thing is like stay attention, stay tame, stay tuned to uh the planning commission. There's a lot of things that happen on Planning Commission that have, you know, a profound impact what we do as a as a community. And there's certain things that they they pass that don't necessarily need to come up to the level of of council. But you know, that's the other part of it. I'd love to see you know people be more be more active in just whatever committee is out there that they do uh their most to try and become involved. One of the committees that I was also involved with was on the sustainability committee, and that was open to the public. Yeah, right. All you need to do is just show up and and present your ideas. And it was presented and moderated by uh Giffels Webster, our planning uh uh company. And yeah, there was only a few people that you know maintained through the course of the two years that we were having regular meetings. And that was unfortunate because I certainly I was dedicated to make sure that some of the things that I believe they brought to the table with the so-called gravitas, you know, of being able to have been on planning commission and serving a little bit as a as a council member, that I had that brought that perspective. But I also was hoping that we have residents that were on that, you know, consistently. And we did. Uh Josh Solomon was one that uh who's also on the planning commission, did a remarkable job on in that and he and his wife were very consistent in in being part of that. But those are the types of things that people can get involved with that will help shape, you know, the direction of our community. And that's what I encourage.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't I feel like people just don't understand how much power they can actually have. When I was on the zoning board of appeals, it was a one of the big key moments of my life. We were hearing CVS wanted to put bigger signs on its store at uh 14 mile and crooks. And the we were gonna have to allow them to do that because the zoning ordinance kept the signs a certain size, but they wanted bigger, bigger signs on their building. So they came before the zoning board of appeals and that night some some neighbors showed up, some people that lived in the apartments and in the places around CVS, and they said, We've already got we've already got too much light pollution coming into our windows. And if they put these bigger signs on their store, that's gonna that's gonna affect us. And we we turned them down. We we wouldn't let them put the bigger signs on their stores, which you know, this is a multi-billion dollar company that's coming into your two square mile city pockets, yeah, with deep pockets. And I look around at the other members of the ZBA and I'm like, we're just regular people here and we have this kind of power, but then the people that showed up at the meeting, if they had not shown up at the meeting, would the decision have gone another way? So just a few residents that live next to the store come in and they say we have light pollution here, they influenced that decision and we were able to do something about it. And I thought, wow, our system of government is amazing because we're not bureaucrats or professional professionals here. We're just regular people that have the opportunity to make decisions like this for the betterment betterment of our community. And what if everybody knew that they could do this?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the fact that you opinion perspective from local residents, and this is the one thing I think we've kind of lost in in modern society that you know we had back in the 19th century, and one of the things that the tocqueful had mentioned as far as what makes American democracy great is the fact that it's local involvement, yeah, right. And that now it's one of those things that you can put yourself you have a lot of things, there's bright, shiny lights and other things that may uh to intimidate people, but still your voice matters, right? So get involved, mention you don't even need necessarily need to be on a committee if you attend and share your expression, whether by letter or in front of a committee, those are the things that are really, really vital that can help shape what we have for a community. And and again, as far as being at Planning Commission, you know, one of the things that that had been brought up, I think it was somebody who lived on Elmwood, and like, hey, there's this house that's getting put up that there's I don't know where the front door is. And I it was one of those that I was concerned about because as we have moving forward with the prosperity of our community, that more and more developers are coming in with teardowns and putting up homes that it was fundamentally changing the characteristics of our community. And one of the things that I was, you know, ran on the last time, ranning on running on still is that we're a porch forward community, that we want to be engaged with our neighbors. And so if we have developments that present to the to the street a above-ground basement is essentially two-car garage, is what they call them. But no one puts two cars in an actual garage. It's used for storage. Those are becoming more and more prevalent in some of the other communities. And so one of the things that I promoted and was able to champion and get approved was limiting the size of garages in the front of developments and making sure that there was a porch there was forward of that development so that at least in principle you could have that porch forward community, that you could have the ability to people to have feel comfortable walking down somebody's in front of someone's property and and know that you know, not necessarily looking at someone's storage shed, you know, from over on 14 mile or uh 13 mile of Chicago, right? Or something like that. Yeah, that that that that's important. But that was one of those things that that came from a discussion from somebody, and like, yeah, you're right. I I don't think that does that much for our community, but those are fundamental too, and slight. You may not even know it until it's too late that, hey, when could I have gotten involved? Right. And that's kind of those types of perspectives, right? And so, you know, many times is that it's too late when something's happened that now you want to come out and say something. Yes. Right. You need to be attentive to that, right? People come to me again, going back to horticulture, it's like they'll always ask me when's the right time to plant a tree, expecting me to say spring or fall, right? I say 20 years ago. So, but that's a kind of foresight and planning that goes into things like that. The type of perspective that, you know, certainly you know, that not just myself, but everybody I can have that perspective on where we are as a community.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I want you to pick what you think is one of the biggest, most consequential challenges that we we face here in Clausen and tell us why that challenge is so consequential. And then put on your teacher hat and give us a 101 on the challenge. How did it emerge? What's feeding into it, and how might we as a community do something about it? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. It's our infrastructure.
SPEAKER_01:No question about it. Right. So we go back to and everybody picks a date and says this is when it all happened is the flood in August of 2014. Now that was a you know claimed to be a hundred-year flood or maybe five hundred-year flood, whatever. It was still a flood. But that showed us the the challenges that we have, not just in our community, but within the uh Coon Drain system that we have in the 12 towns that goes towards the the massive infrastructure that's over at uh 12 mile and 75 over in Madison Heights. And people don't quite grasp as far as how how big that is and how expensive that is. And so, you know, that also accounts for the expenses that we have to pay for our water and in and sewer. But that, you know, we have had an infrastructure that has not been dealt with for many, many years. We should have been the what we're working on now for our underground infrastructure should have been done at least 40 years ago. The fact that we've been just working on patching for water main breaks on water main breaks on water main breaks because people didn't I again it's not a knock on any of the previous councils, but we needed to have people who would make the hard decision and say, look, the money's not gonna come from the state, the money's not gonna come from the federal government, the money has to come from here if we have to do something. And unfortunately, and I recognize how high our our property taxes are, but at the same time, you know, like what's it gonna be? High, high taxes or roads or being and infrastructure being done. And really it is about the fact that we've had hundred-year pipes. Now they're over hundred years. Yeah. They had to have been done. And if we could have done them sooner, 40 years ago, we wouldn't be dealing with the costs and and uh some of the other problems that we're having now. So that that's that's part of it. The other thing, too, obviously, is that when we pass the bond, you know, we we do have to address our roads, but and that's the things that people see the most of, right? But the most of that expense is going into the the uh stormwater mitigation and our drinking water supply. And then uh when all that is said and done, try to address our roads on top of that. So hopefully we can get to all of our goals. But uh yeah, that's something that uh I I'm hoping people understand that this should have been done much, much sooner. You know, and I'm I'm so happy to have been on that uh the on the council that finally made those hard decisions. So look, I I don't want to have to pass this bond. I I don't want to have to do that, but something we have to as a community, because if we kick the can down the road, we're being irresponsible and we're just delaying the inevitable. And it could be getting even worse if that's the case. And I understand and and appreciate uh that a lot of people want it sooner. I I would have loved to have had this done yesterday, but again, we could have done possibly done it 40 years ago. We had the will and desire in order to do that.
SPEAKER_00:So but I don't know if people understand that uh we're sitting in the living room at the Clausen Historical Museum, and there's some books for sale to my right. And there's a photograph in one of those books of downtown Clausen. Yeah. Oh, I guess it was in the 40s maybe, and it's it's underwater. So flooding. What's that?
SPEAKER_01:Was it paved at the end?
SPEAKER_00:I don't well, it was underwater. You could see there's just standing water downtown. So flooding has been a problem in this in this city from the very beginning. It's not a recent development.
SPEAKER_01:Is there well back on that? So and I hate to interrupt your question. No, the fact that we have to understand that what we what we're dealing with as far as just the topography of our area, right? So this whole area was a swamp, right? Troy is even more of a swamp, all right. But we were essentially under what is now Lake St. Clair, right? Back then it was much bigger. And so as the water receded, it lay down more and more thick clay, right? The joke around here is yeah, you can go 12 feet through clay just to hopefully hit bedrock and then you'll find 12 more feet of clay. Bottom line is that look, the the properties of clay do not allow for soil absorption. Yeah, right. And so what do we do on top of that? We overdo not overdevelop, but we we develop with more impervious surface. So where is it going? Well, it's not going into the ground because it can't go there because it gets oversaturated. It's not a medium that will allow for penetration into deep absorption, so it has to go someplace. And so those are the other things that people are concerned about. It's like, well, why is my backyard lake? Well, because you got 12 feet of clay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And the fact that we're not in the we're not in a hilly area, it only goes from northwest to southeast. You know, we had at least one stream that bisects our community that goes on down towards Royal Oak, which is part of the Run Run Drain, Red Run drain system. That that's what all this is is built upon. So when you have flood, it's not because we have a river nearby, it's that we're on top of what used to be a stream bed and swamp. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So the water's not going to really go anywhere. How much can we really do? I I've been curious about this because we are part of the 12 towns drainage system. This is not just Clausen by itself. I worked on a major project in Rochester Hills a few years ago where I learned a lot about water runoff. Water's got to go somewhere. And up there we were talking about the Clinton River. Yep. And I was working on a piece of property that had an 80-foot drop and from the top of the property to the bottom. And so we talked about all the water uphill, it runs downhill. So Clausen is downhill, so to speak, from other communities. And we're part of this 12 towns drainage system. One of the questions I've wondered about for years is how much control do we actually have over stormwater management in Clausen because we are part of this larger system.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's the thing I'd like to find out more about with the completion of the of the videotaping from underneath, right? So what that ends up being, right? So I I have heard things about, and I I can't substantiate this, and whether or not they're true or not, I I couldn't say, but certainly whether or not there's anything that was closed off during previous administrations to storm runoff, I would like to find out more about. You know, and I think that's part of what we're investigating and and will come to light when we finish the uh the uh you know the underground videoing of uh of our system. But yeah, I mean as far as when you have the for our stream that we've built upon, I want to say the the origination was the pond that's over by on Meyer Drive. So that's one of the headwaters. So that's still there, that's still viable, it's still a wetland, and so that'll still provide water that'll flow down you know consistently into our area. And there's not much that we we we're part of the Clinton Rivershed, yeah, right, or watershed. And there's obviously what we have with our neighbors out to the east with with McComb. And you know, certainly as far as the drain commissioner, water commissioner, oh I can't remember her name. She was big in in Lansing when I was Candace Miller. Candace Miller, thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So the fact that you know she has problems with the what we do with water coming from Oakland County. Yeah. So we have to be conscientious of that as well. We don't have any space in order to create. We have one I can never remember, retention detention pond. We have one in the community. That's all really I wasn't even aware of that. It's behind, is it's what in the auto parts store? Is it AutoZone?
SPEAKER_00:Where uh oh yeah, you know what? Yes, I I have seen that when I get my coffee at Tim Horton's. That's that's I believe is uh structurally the only one.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I people could say, well, I have one in my basement. I'm like, yes, I have. Right. So it's not intended. Yeah, but yeah, we don't have the ability to create other spaces in order for which water should go into. Just that's just the nature of our community. We have 2.2 square miles and we're we're as developed as we could possibly be. Yeah, right. Because what do we do? Do we give up one of our few parks that we have? Right. Again, we're trying to protect our green space. And that's the other thing, too, is that talking about infrastructure that people can can work on, you know, by again, I'm going back to how horticulture, the fact that you know people don't understand for the most part, I think some do, that you know, having a viable urban canopy, an urban forest that has a large, mature population of trees can help mitigate stormwater runoff. Not only that, but if you had a shaded street, the longevity and lifespan of that new infrastructure is prolonged by 20%, according to some studies, by having a shade provided over the course of a, you know, if you just have a street that's brand you know brand new, blacktop, asphalt, concrete, whatever, it doesn't matter. The impact of direct sunlight and UV on the longevity of those roads on top of our weather conditions of putting salt down, uh it's at least give it a break during the summer months, yes, right, of having shade and providing that that uh relief to that infrastructure. So, and that's again important for other people to understand that well, I don't want a tree because it creates a mess. Like, well, at the same time, you know, it'll absorb at least 500 gallons of of rain water uh in the course of a season, if not more than that. It also helps uh uh penetrate and percolate water beneath the surface of our clay. So that also helps with the storm water runoff. The other thing too, it it helps for beautify beautifying our community, walkability, and and curb appeal. So, you know, would you much rather walk down a shaded street, you know, and 97 degree day in July or one that's shaded? I mean that also contributes to the helps mitigate the urban heat island effect. Yeah. All right. Many people are concerned about you know climate change and what they may do. All right, the more surface that we develop, the the more that we contribute to that heat island effect. And if we can mitigate that through urban canopy, that that's an important feature. Then again, that's one of the things that I think a lot of people may get tired of me talking about, but we don't have enough of it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it goes back to planting that tree 20 years ago. Well, let's talk about planting that tree 20 years ago. That's a good segue. So I asked you about what's uh a consequential challenge that we face here in Clausen. What what do you think is maybe the one of the biggest opportunities that we have in front of us as a community if we could if we can mobilize and organ or organize around that? What what tree could we plant now, so to speak, that we would really be glad that we planted 20 years from now?
SPEAKER_01:As many as we could, right? And you know, people one of the things that I was shocked by, and I probably shouldn't have been when I went back into our meeting minutes and notes and saying, okay, so obviously we've been having a tree planting program for you know since the existence of us. For the most part, it really kicked off in the late 50s and 60s. But for some reason, during the 80s, we decided to plant 900 Norway maples and call it a day over the course of about five to six years. Those are non-natives? Well, they're they're not not only not maple maples are native, right? But at the same time, what they were trying to make these as street trees, but the problem is that they're 40 feet high, but they're also forty feet wide. And so that becomes a problem in narrow spaces on our streets. So they either were limbed up to the point where they're no longer viable as the type of tree that they were, or by doing that they were susceptible to disease. But the other thing, too, is this not a biodiverse and sustainable arbory that we have, right? Right. That we need to have something else. And you know, I I certainly don't want to come in and just replace them with sycamores. People have their problems with sycamores, but at the same time, there are other trees that people enjoy that like that's just as problematic as any other ones. But at the same time, the benefits weigh more than than what we've done. So, you know, making sure that we aren't just planting, you know, just Norway maples or honey locusts like we've had on our city streets, that we come back with a more biodiverse and more sustainable approach to how we're doing this. We have many uh streets, and this is one thing I've been pushing, many streets that have overhead utilities that have never, you know, to my knowledge, had any street tree within the right-of-way. And the right-of-way being that strip of property that is actually owned by the city, but the the residents have to maintain. There are streets that have never had a tree in those locations. And so I've been pushing the like, well, because we've only been planting street trees that are 40 to 50 feet tall, and you've never done that because, well, the ones we buy aren't appropriate for that. And so let's see what we can do and try and plant some specimen trees, some flowering trees that don't get that high, that won't be problematic. That at least these people who've had these homes can also appreciate, you know, something in their front yard that, you know, many other uh residents have who don't have power utilities that they look at every day in front of their homes.
SPEAKER_00:So what's the uh this this gets my inner nerd going because I've worked on several tree projects in in my life in community development, is the like the greening of Detroit a few years ago, they were giving away trees and residents didn't want didn't want the trees at all for maybe the reason that you mentioned. Our our one of our neighbors complains about their their locust tree all the time. Yeah. And because they know that I know a lot of people at City Hall, they've they've asked me, can you get this thing cut down? Because we we can't stand this tree. So some people don't want the upkeep. Other people may think, well, why how much money is it going to cost for the city to put in all these trees? And I don't want my tax dollars to pay for that. So we have budget for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the fact that we've not uh had new plantings for the past couple years, we because first we wanted to make sure that we we get rid of the problematic trees. We've been focusing and and I spent a lot of time on the list that DPW came up with and said, hold on a second, let me have a second set of eyes. And and part of my credentials is that I've been a master gardener from since 2010, certified through MSU Extension. And so that's been not only my passion, but you know, part of my education uh as an adult that uh has led me to being able to help and to have the bona fides that's saying that this is the direction that we need to go. But also my train of thought there. So in the end, that you know, uh whether or not somebody would like to have a tree there, the benefits weigh the the negative aspect of it. The the other thing too is that it doesn't necessarily have to be a honey locust. I understand what that may be, right? But there are other things too that, you know, unfortunately we just can't plant plastic trees. But we do have the we do have the budget for it, and certainly you know, going and finding those resources, and I think there's an education aspect of it too for residents. You know, one of the saddest things I've seen recently is having mature tree taken out of the backyard of somebody that it was like it was massive, and it was just it was old, but it was not diseased, it didn't cause any problem. And here's the problem with having removed that we didn't have a mechanism which said, hold on a second, as a resident, this is what it does for the community and directly impacting your neighbors. So, and and I don't want to go into the path of what some communities have by heritage trees or along those lines, but at least having giving pause for someone who wants to take something out that says, like, okay, well, you know, we don't have a fee structure that says that in order to do that and having heavy equipment, this is what you need to pay for, or saying if you're doing that, then we need to have this added to a tree bank of some type. And you know, those can be problematic too, and trying to maintain and understand, like, well, how big is it? What does it go towards? I just think that we we still need to come up and move forward with our plan for the the budget that we have and the spaces that we have, and making sure that we maintain what we have within our public spaces and hope that the public can also educate themselves on understanding how impactful some of these can be.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So it's just it's a long, it's a long road, and I don't know if we'll ever get there. And because the other thing, too, is many people think, well, I don't want a new tree here, right? It's like, well, why? Well, because it's gonna get into the sewer. Well, first of all, you know, a sapling that's two years old, that's not gonna happen. Right? It's only mature trees that there's also underlying problems with the infrastructure. A tree isn't gonna purposely find, okay, where's the where's the water line so I can choke it off and infiltrate it? That's not, you know, that's not what happens, right? And it takes a long time, right? So that if you do have mature trees, that again, it's overall benefit to the community outweighs whatever people consider, right? Just having grass is not beneficial. You know, I it's easy to maintain. Lord, I wish I had just maintained grass in my backyard, right? With having two kids and involved in baseball and in and with the city, you know, I I shudder every time I go into my backyard and thinking, what was I thinking, trying to develop as much as I can. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00:But you know, that's it's one of those when you were talking about the difficulty of being an elected official and how being an automotive sales prepared you for that. I think so many people, and this is maybe unique to just our American culture, is everybody wants to live in a town with a lot of trees. Yeah. But they don't want the tree in their backyard. You know what I mean? Yeah, and it's not just that, right?
SPEAKER_01:There's a lot of aspects of like, well, I I'm happy that my neighbor plants a tree, but I won't ever have one. Yeah, yeah. But I want a neighborhood that has it. Yeah. Well, it does start to have there's some sacrifice that everybody has to have. And try quite honestly, you know, it's whatever is appropriate, right? Again, as I may have mentioned, it's like, you know, we can't have plastic trees, right? That doesn't do any bet any good. But there's always something that happens, right? Leaves fall, you know, some are more problematic than others. But again, one of the things that I I studied is that uh in looking at the community and what we needed for our urban forests is that I was not surprised, but still shocked that in our public spaces, more than 75% of our trees are maples. And not only that, but they're silver maples, silver maples that are old and need to be removed. Yeah. And it's it's always a shock when you see mature trees that are removed from a location that you don't understand until it's done what the impact is. Yeah. Not just from an aesthetic and visual perspective, but also as far as the micro environment within that area. Having you know, trees that are gone that have created a shady space, you get more weed intrusion from those places, and it's just far more maintenance than it would be if you just had more trees.
SPEAKER_00:Your AC bill goes up in the summertime. Yeah, our tree fell in the backyard last year, and it's made the backyard not as pleasant a place as it used to be. That's right. Two more questions here. I just one what's one thing that you think would improve how city council functions in service to the people of Clausen? And I mean, apart from how personalities manifest on the council, you have no control over that. What changes might make city council better at representing the desires and needs of the people and better at deliberating and deciding on the people's business?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's more engagement with city staff. You know, I can only account for myself. Yeah. Uh as far as I have, you know, it's multiple times a week. I'll have engagement with the city manager and uh assistant city manager on topics, right? And making sure that those communications are are happening on a regular basis. You know, certainly I would like to collaborate more with my counterparts, but they have busy schedules and trying to find the time just to have a special workshop to talk some issues out, you know, may be helpful, but again, it's just it's a matter of being able to coordinate things. And you know, it's tough enough with the council of five. I'm not sure how that's gonna happen with the council of seven. He's smiling at me right now. So I but that's what we have to encounter, right? That's the that's what we need to to to try and overcome, you know, and understanding, you know, whoever's coming in, they're gonna be new, right, for the most part. And I certainly hope that, you know, I I'm you know, have the luxury of and benefit of people deciding to vote for me in order to again have that uh institutional knowledge that will help with the next uh council. But uh getting up to speed and understanding what our dynamics are as a community and what our history has been, again, some of the things I've been talking about, right? That it's important to understand those moving into a new council and how to improve. Because it's going to be a big learning curve for many people uh who are a council. And I certainly want to try and you know help mitigate that as best as possible, you know, by being uh on council. So I guess one of the best ways is that I get re-elected, I guess, in order to try and improve. But you know, uh our collaboration is limited to an extent that you know we can't have more than a couple people or else we violate our OMA. Right. And certainly we are going to make sure that that's maintained, and that's always been a tenet for me, that uh if I have a conversation with somebody, that I don't go to somebody else and say, hey, this is what we're doing. Right. That's that's against the law, and that's something that I I hold strictly to. But I suggest that talking and having conversations with our management, because again, it goes back to understanding our place within our city government, which is that we are a weak city council, strong city management. So that's it's uh I think understanding that will help.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Would you mind just real quick when people you've said this a couple times, and when people hear weak city council, strong city manager, those particular words weak and strong, back during the Charter Commission days, I remember talking to people about weak doesn't really mean weak, as in it's it's an impotent, you know, body that might as well not exist. It's it's a matter of our authority. It's a legal term. So just just for the the pupils out there who are listening to this who are who are now learning about it for the first time, maybe talk about it a little more so they realize it's we we have limited auth authority, right?
SPEAKER_01:So if it was a strong city council, you would basically have a mayor who has more responsibility for day to day activities. Right. And so because we have decided that, and this is for a part of when we first established ourselves as the community, I think even before when we were a village, that's right, right, that we had a A city manager do the day-to-day activities.
SPEAKER_00:From that's 1921, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's their responsibility. So when we say weak, it's still we need strong people who have a vision, who have perspective, and and all these other things that come with being an elected official, but making sure that the day-to-day things that are happening, that's imparted and in the purview of our city management. So and that's the one thing that you know I I have to catch myself and say, like, okay, hold on a second. I would like to become more involved with it, but guess what? I do not want to get involved in the day-to-day tasks and micromanage a city manager because again, that's not our form of government. That is not our responsibility. We shape policy, we can have conversations and we can direct. But as far as making sure that you know things happen on a day-to-day basis, that's what the city management is there for.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, very good explanation. So this last question, uh just to set it up, like my wife and I have talked for years, and there's just not enough time or money or energy for us, you know, having a family and having jobs and everything. But we've we've wanted we've wanted years to turn the uh concession stand at the stadium into an ice cream shop during the summer months. It was like, wouldn't it be great if we could walk over to the park from our house and get some ice cream? So we have ideas like that. So this last question, you may have already answered it, talking about trees a lot. But let's say a a wealthy benefactor gave just a ton of money to to the city of Clausen, and we could do whatever we want with it. It could be something fun, right? What would you what would be your dream project?
SPEAKER_01:Indoor recreation.
SPEAKER_00:Indoor recreation.
SPEAKER_01:Really? Talk about that. I don't know if I know what that is. So there's a like the greenhouse down on Bell Isle or uh Mathai Gardens in in Ann Arbor. Yep. Right. So that you'd have a place that would be a repr a place that people can escape to that they don't have to go down to you know sunnier climbs and warmer areas, right? That we could have a place to go visit to just to get a refresher during the you know cold doldrums of uh January and February. But at the same time, you know, having an area for indoor recreation possibly attached to that. That's just you know, if if all things were you know, money was no object, having a place for uh pickleball or tennis, and on the other side of that, having that escape for that. Because certainly if you do that and then have a pool, all right. There's so many headaches and problems with maintaining a pool that it like you're not just put in a bunch of you know tropical trees and plants and call it a day, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00:No, an arboratum, just so people know, that's where a lot a lot of cities used to have those. They would grow their saplings there and then they'd transplant them. That's how they they got their trees that they planted around the city. So there are still cities that there are quite a few that are still around. So you're saying an indoor version of that. That could be both for recreation and leisure, but also you could possibly develop some trees for the city.
SPEAKER_01:Well, not let's say deserve uh more along the lines of what they have in the conservatory. Like the conservatory. Exactly. Yeah, something like that. And it wouldn't have to be big, but just something that okay, you know, let's go over there and enjoy, you know, what we're looking forward to at some point in time. Right. And in you know, certainly there would be exotics for the most part, and yeah, that would be something that we could do. Now the other thing, too, is that just to touch base back on on what my passions are, and just to make sure everybody understands that I I am all for whatever we plant, right? There's a big push for uh making sure that we have native species, and I am a big proponent for that. But at the same time, you know, like if there's something else that works for our community, let's try that, right? Let's try something new, just as long as it's not an invasive, right? That that's something. But anyway, so you know, because certainly going to some of these locations, whether it be in Ann Arbor or on the Belle Isle and a couple other uh places I've been to, that it's just the sense of calm and peace that you have is one that you know it's it's transcendental. Certainly, you know, you can do that by going to church as well a lot of times, right? So, but at the same time, there's an immediate impact of of being in a space that you're sharing with other living things that help to contribute to uh uh your place in the world.
SPEAKER_00:Amen to that. Well, Glenn Shepard is one of two incumbents running for a second term on the Clausen City Council. Glenn, thank you for hanging out with us at the Clausen Historical Museum this early September Saturday Martyorship. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. It's been a thank you for listening to this episode of Coffee with Clausen Candidates. Remember to check out the other 13 Clausen candidates in the other 13 episodes. And if you found this podcast to be valuable to you, please share it with a neighbor in Clausen. Don't forget to support our local sponsors who made this podcast possible. Special thanks to Blair Memorial Public Library, the Clausen Historical Museum, and Cave Cafe, all in Clausen, for letting us record 13 of the 14 episodes at their locations. Make sure you go visit every one of them and tell them thank you. The Coffee with Clausen Candidates Podcast is written, directed, hosted, recorded, and edited by B.T. Irwin, and produced by James Flanagan at Podcast Your Boys Studios in Southfield. Visit the Clausen City Elections page at cityofclauson.com to learn how, when, and where to cast your ballot this fall. We'll post a link in the show notes. Get out there and vote, Clausen. Until next time, grace and peace to you and all your Clausen neighbors.
