Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Have a cup of coffee with candidates for elected offices in Clawson, Michigan, this fall 2025. Clawson resident and former Clawson City Charter Commission member BT Irwin sits down for friendly and relaxed conversations with all 14 candidates, asking them questions that shine the light on their Clawson stories, their character, and what they imagine and plan for Clawson (and how they will bring it about if they get into office). These interviews reveal the candidates as they really are (and not as they appear to be in campaign literature and soundbites).
Coffee with Clawson Candidates
George Georges, candidate for Clawson City Council
George Georges is a 13-year resident of Clawson whose involvement in the community makes him seem like someone who has been around a lot longer. Georges served on the Clawson Planning Commission before accepted an appointment to fill a vacancy on Clawson City Council in July 2021. That appointment expired in November 2021. Georges, however, was at the center of one of the strangest events in Clawson history. At the final meeting of the outgoing Clawson City Council on November 3, 2021, the council voted to appoint Georges to another vacant seat that would serve a term through November 2023. However, the incoming city council refused to seat Georges, resulting in an ongoing legal dispute that lasted until January 2023, when the two sides reached a settlement. Georges agreed to not pursue that seat any further. Now he is running for one of four Clawson City Council seats up for election this fall.
For your hometown Clawson real estate needs, get KW Domain certified Realtor Erin Redmond at eredrealestate@gmail.com or call (586) 242-8419.
Expecting and new parents, certified postpartum doula and pediatric sleep coach Lynn Eads can help you and your new baby settle into your life together. Learn more at learnwithlynne.com.
Get out and vote, Clawson! Learn all about how, when, and where to vote by clicking here or call (248) 435-4500x118.
Friends, hello, I'm B.T. Irwin, your neighbor in Clausen for 13 years now. Welcome to Coffee with Clausen Candidates, a limited podcast series that gives each candidate for Clausen City Council and Mayor their own episode. These are in-depth, but relaxed conversations in which all 14 candidates reveal their hearts, minds, and personalities. More on that in a minute or two. First, please know that the information you're hearing in this introduction is the same for all 14 episodes. So if you already heard it when listening to another episode, you don't have to listen to it again. Just skip straight to the interview. If this is your first episode of Coffee with Clausen candidates, I think the information I'm about to share with you in this introduction will help you understand the election coming up in Clausen this fall and how this podcast can help you choose who will get your votes. Before we get to that, you may want to know who is hosting this show and whether he's fit for your time and trust. Now, I'm not a professional journalist, but I do have a lot of experience interviewing public figures for the Christian news organization where I work part-time. More important to Clausen folks like you, however, is my unusual level of involvement in Clausen government over the last few years. It started in 2020 when I accepted an appointment to the Zoning Board of Appeals. In November 2021, I was elected to the Clausen City Charter Commission, where I served until the people of Clausen adopted the revised city charter we proposed in November 2023. Through those experiences, I've gotten to know Clausen City government and many of the people who work in it. So that's me. Now let's talk about the election happening in Clausen this fall, 2025. This is your crash course. If you didn't know, this year's Clausen City election is historic for at least two reasons. First, it is the first general election to take place after the adoption of the revised city charter in November 2023. This fall, our city council is expanding from one two-year mayor and four at-large four-year members to one four-year mayor and six four-year members. Second, if the 14 candidates running for city offices in Clawson this fall are not a record, I'd like to see an election where more candidates ran. I can't imagine that we've ever had this many people running for office at the same time in Clawson. So this is a big election with lots of candidates running for more seats than Clausen has ever had on its city ballot. There are a total of six seats up for election in what will be a seven-seat city council come November 2025. I think it can get confusing, so I'm going to break it down for you. First, the office of mayor is up for election. The mayor chairs the city council and is a voting member of it. Until now, Clausen's mayor always served a two-year term. The revised charter, however, changes the mayor's term to four years to match the other members of City Council. Whoever the people of Clausen elect as their mayor this fall will serve from November 2025 to November 2029. Two candidates are running for mayor, incumbent mayor Paula Milan, who has been in office since 2021, and Claussen City Councilmember Sue Moffitt. Next, there are four at-large city council seats up for election. Two of those seats are existing seats with expiring terms. Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd occupy those seats, which they won as the top two vote getters in the November 2021 election. The two existing seats are for four-year terms, running from November 2025 to November 2029. And then there are two new seats that the revised city charter adds to the city council this year. Of the 10 candidates running, the top four vote getters will take the four at-large seats. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, 2025 to 2029, but the fourth place vote getter will serve only two years until 2027. This will happen only once. In 2027, that seat will become a four-year term like all the others. The revised charter calls for this unusual arrangement so that the City Council eventually gets on a cycle of four of its seats being up for election every four years, and three of its seats being up for election every four years on a rotating basis. So, in review, there are four at-large city council seats up for election this fall 2025, two of them existing and two of them new. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, and the fourth place vote getter will serve a two-year term. The ten candidates running for those four seats are incumbents Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd, and challengers George Georges, Scott Manning, Meredith Peltinen, Billy Rinshaw, Heather Rinkovich, Laura Slewinsky, Alex Speeshock, and Scott Tinlan. Are you keeping score? We're up to five seats on the ballot. I said there are six, so here's the last one. Back in the spring, Councilmember Matt Benkowski resigned his seat because he was moving out of the city. Benkowski won his four-year term in November 2023, so he was to fill his seat until November 2027. When a city council member leaves office during her or his term, the revised city charter calls for city council to appoint a replacement who will serve until the next regular city election, at which time the public will elect someone to finish out the full term. Not long after Binkowski resigned, City Council appointed Richard Scott to fill the seat until the November 2025 election. On your ballot, this city council seat will be listed apart from the other four. Whichever candidate gets the most votes for this seat will serve out the rest of Binkowski's term that runs through November 2027. Scott is running to retain the seat for the next two years. Aiden O'Rourke is running to challenge him for it. So now that you know what is up for election in Clausen this fall and who is running, let's get to how this podcast might help you decide who gets your votes. I interviewed all 14 candidates, one episode for each one. I wanted to do something different from the other candidate interviews that are out there. Not to say that those other interviews are not helpful. I think they are quite helpful and I follow them myself. But I find that the usual candidate interview format to be too narrow or too short to really get to know the candidates as people. I like to know where candidates stand on the quote-unquote issues, yes, but I really want to know what they know, how and what they think, what makes them tick, who they are as human beings. So I designed these podcast interviews to be friendly and relaxed and full of open-ended questions. I wanted the candidates to feel like they could open up and just talk about what they think is important and why. I also wanted them to be able to talk about themselves, without the pressure of needing to react to questions about issues and one-minute sound bites. I can say that I enjoyed every one of the 14 conversations as I sat across from candidates at places like the Clausen Historical Museum, Blair Memorial Public Library, and Cave Cafe in downtown Clausen. Even interviewed one candidate on a front porch. And I learned a lot from just about every candidate who opened up to me. So I hope you learn a lot too, and that in learning about the candidates, you'll fill out your ballot with confidence and even, dare I say it, joy. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode of Coffee with Clausen Candidates. Welcome to the George Georges episode. Now I've started every episode of this podcast with a brief introduction of each candidate's public service history in Clausen. All of those are pretty cut and dried. Mr. George's, however, is part of a saga that will go down as one of the strangest in Clausen history, and I would be remiss if I did not break it down for you here. This is hard to explain and follow, but I will try. In 2021, City Council comprised five members, the mayor and four at-large city council seats. That summer, Mayor Reese Scripture announced that she planned to not run for re-election that November. Two council members, Paula Milan and Kathy Phillips, ran against each other in the mayoral election. And that's where things got weird. Under the original city charter, still in effect at that time, council members who ran for mayor had to resign their seats. Thus, both Milan and Phillips resigned, and the City Council had two vacancies to fill that summer of 2021. City Council appointed Georges to fill the seat that Milan resigned, a term that was to end on November 8, 2021. City Council appointed Glenn Shepard to fill Phillips' seat, a term that was to end in November 2023. Georges and Shepard, however, both ran as at-large candidates for Clausen City Council that fall 2021. They were running for two seats that would serve terms from 2021 to 2025. Now one of those seats belonged to Sue Moffat, who was not running for re-election. The other seat belonged to Paula Milan, who resigned it to run for mayor. Remember, George's was in Milan's seat by appointment, but the term was to end on November 8, 2021, at which time whoever won the most votes in the election would take on the next four-year term. In the general election, Bruce Anderson won the most votes, and Shepard won the second most votes, thus winning the two seats that would serve from 2021 to 2025. Remember, those were seats that had belonged to Paula Milan and Sue Moffat. That meant that Georges, who placed fourth in the at-large election, would be off City Council when Milan's original council term expired on November 8. But Phillips losing the mayoral contest and Shepard winning his own seat on City Council meant that Phillips' seat, which Shepard filled for her by appointment from July to November 2021, was now vacant. City Council would have to appoint someone new to finish Phillips' term through November 2023. That gave us one of the craziest weeks ever in Clausen politics. On November 3, 2021, the day after the election, the outgoing City Council and Mayor met for the last time. In the closing minutes of the meeting, Mayor Scripture surprised everyone in council chambers by asking for Georges' immediate resignation, an item that was not on the agenda. Now remember, Georges occupied one of two seats that Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd would take over on November 8. Georges complied and offered his resignation immediately. City Council voted to accept. In the next moment, the mayor quickly motioned to appoint Georges to Kathy Phillips' vacant seat, a term that would run another two years through November 2023. The council again voted to secure Georges another two years on the council, even though he didn't win an election. A week later, the new city council and new mayor refused to recognize the old city council's last-minute appointment of Georges to the remainder of Phillips' term. Georges then filed suit against the city of Claussen. For the next 14 months, City Council operated with only four members while trying to settle the lawsuit. Finally, in January 2023, the city of Clausen and Georges reached a settlement. The city agreed to cover Georges's$14,000 in attorney's fees and issue a formal apology to Georges and his family. Georges agreed to drop the suit. Perhaps to the dissatisfaction of many Clausen residents, the settlement never answered the question about the legality of Mayor Scripture's counsel appointing Georges on November 3, 2021, or the legality of Mayor Milan's counsel refusing that appointment five days later. Both sides made cases that their actions were legal. We may never know, but that's history now. The residents of Clausen voted to revise their city charter in November 2023, which we hope closes some of the loopholes that made 2021 such an exciting year around here. Meanwhile, George Georges is moving on from the whole thing and trying to restart his public service career here in Clausen. He's running for one of four at-large city council seats this fall, and he's here with us today.
SPEAKER_02:Once again, I'm sitting here at Kave Cafe in downtown Clausen enjoying a vanilla latte, and sitting across from me is George Georges, a candidate for Clausen City Council this fall, 2025. He's a 13-year resident of Clausen. We both moved here at the same time back in 2012. He served on the planning commission many years, and he was just telling me that he can't remember exactly what those years were, but he remembers he voted on the Ace Hardware Project and White Wolf. Everybody in town knows those two projects well. He was appointed to city council in July uh 2021 through November 2021. There's a whole story there that we won't get into right now. And uh he is running for city council again to represent you this fall 2025. George, thanks for sitting down and having a coffee with us.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you. As they say, let's start the conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a pleasure. So let's start with this. What is your clausen story?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, the coming into Clausen? Yeah, what's your clauson story? Thirteen years ago, my two daughters came to me and told me that I would probably see my grand grandsons more often if I lived out in this area. Okay, so my wife and I got in the car and we drove up here into Clausen and we started looking for a house. After a couple, three weeks, we saw a house that we really potential. We saw potential in. We got a hold of the real estate person, they took us through the house. It was 322 Bauman, and the house was being recycled. In other words, there was a contract coming to fix the house up. We took a look at it, I liked it. It's about 40,000 square uh square foot yard, and it has a nice little barn in the back, which I really loved. Yeah. Okay. So I sat down with the contractor and I told him if he could get it to appraise to my number, I would buy the house. And obviously, he got it appraised. Okay. And and the interesting thing is that it's a uh a VA mortgage that's on the house. And if you ever had inspectors from the VA come in and do the inspection, okay, they are probably the most thorough people in in the housing market on that. So we we bought the house, okay? And we moved in, like I said, 13 years ago. Yes, sir. And here I am.
SPEAKER_02:Here you are. So I I've asked everybody this question because we know who our elected representatives are here in Clausen. We see them on, you know, YouTube city council meetings and things like that. But it doesn't often occur to us that our elected representatives have day jobs or careers or work that they they've done over their lifetime. And so I think it's really fascinating to hear what those who serve in public air do or did. So what what is your career? What is what has been your day job for most of your life?
SPEAKER_04:Uh let me let me start back in 1964. Okay, 64. 64. All right. I enlisted and joined the United States Marine Corps. I spent four years, of which approximately 16 months were in Vietnam. Okay, so I would be classed as as a Vietnam veteran. Because of my service, I uh wound up having 100% disability, okay? Via Agent Orange. Wow. All right. So everything is important to me to follow through and kind of finish because I want to make sure it gets accomplished. Yes. Okay. When I left the Marine Corps, I went to Wayne State University under the GI Dough, okay. And I completed my four year degree in two years. Okay. So I finished in two years. Wow. My degree was a Bachelor of Arts in Accounting. I sat for the CPA exam. It took me two times to get it, but I got it. And I worked for as a CPA. I kind of somewhat got bored with that because I had a customer that was a manufacturer in garments and he manufactured jackets, and it just fascinated me what you could do. So I I left the accounting profession and I went into the apparel market or business. Interesting. And then I saw a gentleman with an embroidery machine, okay? And I thought that was even better, okay? So from there I went into the embroidery industry, okay? And that's where I've been for uh almost thirty years. No kidding. And right now I'm working at a company where they hired me in to do something that uh I'm fairly good at, which is kind of sort out the mess and make things happen. The company was doing X number of dollars, and I actually in my first year there we doubled the number, and then I exceeded each year. Okay. So I've done what they wanted done, and the the company is thriving. Now it's a a division, the embroidery is a division of a company that has other other forms of decoration. Okay. So it it's been fun, okay? And it's enjoyable. And then, okay, I somewhat got interested in politics. I don't know how you can't do that in Causan, because it's a place that you can. Certainly is interesting. Yes. And and that's that's basically it. Yeah. Okay. You know, how can you best serve the people, okay, if you don't speak up, use your knowledge, okay, and try to accomplish something. And that's what I'm trying to do here. Yes, sir. Like my major theme of my whole purpose on this this thing is that I don't believe we're doing the right thing with sixty-five million dollars. I believe we should be doing what's called asphalt paving versus concrete paving. And when you study the concepts of asphalt versus concrete, what you find out if you have a low volume road traffic, okay, you should use asphalt automatically. Okay. I couldn't find any place where they did actually any road counts or car counts. The only one I could find, there was a car count done on 14, 14 mile in the main street, and it was 28,000 cars a day. Okay. Then well, that's 14 mile. Okay. What about Elmwood? Okay? No counts. All right. So the whole thing here is if we have a low volume, my answer is we should automatically be new in at all. Now, the incentive for asphalt is very simple. Roughly from what I've been reading, okay, there's about a 30% differential in concrete versus asphalt. So if we're in cost. In in cost. In cost. Okay. So if we're doing a million dollars in concrete, simply it would be$700,000 in asphalt. So that's$300,000. So let's expand it. Okay. On the sheet, the table that the uh DPW people in the city did put together, okay, for the bonding issue, they said that they were gonna do sixty-five million dollars, of which, okay, without going to the pennies,$40 million and forty let forty-two million would be for the streets, okay, twenty-some million, the twenty-three, so they make it sixty-five, twenty-three million would be for the underground or water in the sewer. Okay? So if I'm working with forty-two million dollars and I'm gonna say thirty percent, guess what? That's twelve million dollars. Now, why would I say we should super consider it? Well, first of all, I haven't seen or I haven't heard that any type of civil engineer was brought in to put together the numbers so realistically we can see what has to be done. Period. Okay? Nothing. All right. Now, I'm not saying that the engineering firm that we used, okay, is is not qualified. What I'm saying they're not, as far as I know, civil engineers. And if you're gonna do something with underground concrete, you want a civil engineer. Okay? And when you talk to a civil in engineer about our scenario, they'll say guess what? Asphalt. They're not gonna say concrete. Yeah. Now just to make sure that we all understand the intricacies of asphalt versus concrete. In the research that I've been doing, I found out that if the street has concrete, okay, potentially you can't convert it to asphalt. You gotta do concrete. Okay. Okay, now there was no hard fast rule that said that had to be. So that's what I'm trying to find out right now.
SPEAKER_02:Is there any difference in I don't know anything about this at all. Is there an ad any difference in life expectancy or maintenance costs?
SPEAKER_04:Okay. But is this true? There is, okay. Concrete, okay, let's say you can have a 40-year life. Okay, okay. Uh well, in costum, I'm gonna say maybe 30 years, because when you look at our streets that are concrete, they're horrible. The freeze cycle, you know, freeze tall cycles. Okay, the free cycle. When you take a look at the concrete that was used, it's got a lot of aggregate. You can see stones, which means it's a cheap concrete. Okay, so in the past, the people in power at the DPW, okay, said we're gonna get a better, better price, okay, by letting them put in something cheap. Okay. All right. And the same thing happened when you took a look at the streets of that as well. Okay, why did it fall apart? Well, it's because of cheapness. They didn't put the money into the quality, okay. One of the first things, by the way, 13 years ago that I asked about Elmwood is why did they stop at the school? Why didn't they finish it to Crooks? And you know what I was all? And I think it was a question I asked Tenny Loop, okay. She said they ran out of money. I don't care where you are, okay. That's not an excuse. Okay. They could have made the money, okay, to finish that street, but they didn't.
SPEAKER_02:You're say for those who are listening, Elmwood is pretty smooth concrete from what, Maine all the way to Oh, Rochester. From Rochester all the way to Selfridge. Yes. Right? And then from Selfridge on, it's it's a moonscape.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And Penny Lubes, for those who may not know, was the mayor for many years here in Clausen. Yeah. So I live right there on that stretch of Elmwood that uh that's being replaced right now. Yeah. So I I know all about that. Let me ask you, we're gonna get more into this in a moment, but I want to get too far ahead here. Okay. Obviously, you've been reading a lot about concrete and asphalt, but all the other candidates I've asked them, what is on your bedstand right now? I'm I'm reading a bunch of I'm reading a book about the mind, and I'm reading a book about call the college industry right now in the United States. What are you feeding into your mind these days?
SPEAKER_04:I have a book that's sitting on my nightstands. Yeah. Okay. And it's a book titled, let me see if I get it straight, Make Your Bed in the Morning. Make Your Bed in the Morning, yes. It was written by a Navy SEAL, okay, who's an admiral. Okay. And and this is so true about the SEALs and the Marine Corps. When you go in, the first thing they teach you how to do is to make your bed. And you do it every day. The first thing in the morning you do is you make your bed. First thing. Okay. And then once you got that done, then you move on to the next task and the next task. So what they're doing is we're teaching you how to somewhat organize yourself. Make your bed and then go forward. Make your bed and then go forward. And that's something that I lived with so uh since 1964.
SPEAKER_02:And you were trained that way. Yes. You were trained that way. I I think you may have already answered this question, but you can riff on it a little more. There are a few thousand people in Clausen who are eligible to run for office. Only 14 of them are running this time around, and you're one of them. So why you and why now? Concrete and asphalt. We we got that part.
SPEAKER_04:That's that is probably the uh that was could do a percentage. Yeah, 80% of the reason why is totally because of that$65 million.
SPEAKER_02:And I have to ask this one question real quick. Is that pardon the pun, but is that bus all already down the road, or is is there still time to change how that$65 million is spent?
SPEAKER_04:We have okay, when you take a look what they've done with the$65 million, off the top of my head, I believe it was four. Let's see.
SPEAKER_02:He's got spreadsheets, folks.
SPEAKER_04:It's it's four bond issues that we're gonna go through. Okay, okay. Well, uh I don't want to call it A, B, C, D. Okay. We had the first one at$25 million, the next one's at$14 million, the third one is at$15 million, and the last one is an eight. And you add them all up and it's roughly$65 million. Okay. The total of the construction on the street side, okay, is$400 million. The sewer underground, okay, is$22 million. But the big problem that they have with the sewer park is they don't really know. Okay? We have been we spent a million dollars, okay, a million dollars to film the entire sewer line, water line here in Klaus. And from that video, they're gonna tell you what's good and what's bad. And what's the what it adds up to, we honestly don't know. It could turn around and they could say, you know what, guess what, guys? We gotta put$47 million into the underground. Okay. Well that leaves us$20 million for streets. Okay? So what are we gonna do? All right. So I think what happened, all right, is maybe, okay, we jumped the gun a little bit and jumped into this before we even had the data that's gonna tell us which was gonna flow.
SPEAKER_02:I see. Okay, so we'll see. And so with these bond issues, and this is for people listening who may not understand, like the city doesn't go down and apply for a credit card to pay for stuff. Generally, cities issue bonds, which those are investment instruments that the debt is is to the public, those who buy the bonds. And so you're saying there are four issues of bonds from the 65 million that the people approved.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Well, it's actually 65 million, which is broken down into four bond issues. Yeah. Now just so we get the terminology straight, what we have here is a thing called millage. We voted for the bonds, so we're gonna they're gonna get paid for because they're attached to the value of our house, and that's called millage. So if we're paying, let's say, 45 mills right now, and it's gonna be another three mills, then we're gonna pay 48. Yes. Three mills goes to the bonds.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Okay, I got it. He's a CPA. He may just retire. Retired CPA. Could you could you name one or two people after whom you would most like to resemble how you go about the work of being an elected public official? What about their habits and style appeals to you?
SPEAKER_04:Boy, that's a that's a dumb question.
SPEAKER_02:We know there's an admiral uh there's an admiral who makes his bed every morning. So that's a story.
SPEAKER_04:And then there's another admiral that is on oh what the hell, it's a radio program. Michael, Michael, Michael. He's on uh the oh gosh. Okay, uh it'll it'll come to me. On that. He's on the radio? Yeah, it's on the radio. Michael Admiral, Michael No no no no no no no no the the uh the radio show is Michael something. And he he's a he's an attorney, okay, that was practicing law, but now he's a very high profile radio person actually. And he has an admiral that he always talks to. I see. Who was the uh chief of I want to say Mabel or the uh NATO ally? Okay. Very good now. And I believe he's Greek. Okay. That's me. I'm Greek, so we get along.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Uh he's another person that I do admire.
SPEAKER_02:What do you admire, madam?
SPEAKER_04:Uh his knowledge base. Okay. I'm sure if he was sitting here talking about Ashwell, he'd be saying saying the same thing that I'm saying. Why? And and and I do that a lot. I'll just say why. Okay, I I look for an answer to a question, and when you say why, okay, it it it it it digs in deeper. Okay. And and sometimes it gets answered, sometimes it doesn't. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:What is one thing about how the city works that the public ought to know, but most people don't know. And how might we change that?
SPEAKER_04:One of the things that I I when that little short period of time I was on the city council, I wanted to set up what's called an audit committee. Okay. Now, when you take a look at the all the cities around the Michigan area, and you say how many have audit committees, okay, you'll find out there's not that many.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Now, what's special about Clausen and I and I'll say I'm not Quite sure I know how many, but Clawson structure is a weak council and a strong city manager. Which means the city manager, in essence, the the only thing the city council can do realistically is well, they have to approve, you know, the budgets. They happen to approve these contracts. If they said no, then he's got to go back and redo them. But he actually runs the city, okay? And the city council is there to uh approve the budgets, okay? Sometimes they'll bring up some concepts they what they want to see, okay, and this is what I'm talking about. What I want to do is have an audit committee that will review the finances of the city, okay, from the concept of the city council. Because when you look at his chart of the chart of the organizational chart, okay, it says right here, and I'll let you read it. Read what it says there.
SPEAKER_02:Residents of Clausen.
SPEAKER_04:And then read this here.
SPEAKER_02:Mayor and council members.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. We have a CPA that comes in and does the uh year-end audit, okay. And where is that CPA sitting on the chart of accounts?
SPEAKER_02:The CPA is under finance director.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Okay. What I want to do is I want to have an audit committee here, okay, that's gonna overlook. Now, is it gonna run the financial on? No. We're just gonna be there to say what? Why? Ask that question, why, okay, which can be done. All right. And that to me, okay, brings into the perspective that we now have some element of control, okay, over how things not are gonna be done, but are being done properly on that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And just to point out, because people aren't looking at the chart, the finance director reports to the city manager who reports to city council. So you're saying an audit committee at the council level, would that be made, would that be a standing committee of the council, or would that be like an independent appointed body?
SPEAKER_04:It's gonna be it's gonna have to be done by ordinance, okay, so that it has some type of foundational rules, we'll say. And it is part of the city council. Okay. Okay. And by the way, the chart of accounts, okay, these numbers here are all in, and I'll let you read the book. What's it say?
SPEAKER_02:Budget fiscal year 2025-26.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Now, how many of the 14 people that you've had interview brought this and said read it?
SPEAKER_02:You're the first, I have to admit.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I want you to, I think you've already done this, but hey, let's do it again. Okay. Maybe I'll have a different answer this time. I want you to think of what is the biggest, most consequential challenge, or one of the biggest, most consequential challenges we face here in Clausen. Tell us why that challenge is so big and consequential, and then put on your teacher hat and give us a 101 on the challenge. How did it emerge? What's feeding into it? And how might we as a community and city government working together meet that challenge head on over the next few years?
SPEAKER_04:What is a tough one? I want to use an example, okay. And you're familiar with it because we briefly talked about it, okay. Back in May we had a special election, okay, to verify, okay, the accuracy, okay, of seven versus five. On city council. On city council.
unknown:All right.
SPEAKER_04:The existing council, three people, okay, which was a majority at that time, brought up and said, we're gonna have another special election, okay, to answer the question. Okay. Now, keeping in mind this was done in when we did the charter commission, the the solution was there. Here's how we're gonna do it, okay, and we're gonna implement this program, okay? We did not even get to the point that implementation before somebody said we got to have another vote. Okay, so$25,000 to$36,000 later, we had another vote. Guess what? The people came back, and I'm gonna use a phrase that one of the former city managers used. We had a landslide victory saying that no, it stays at seven. Okay, a land slide. That means more than the average person said, no, we want this to happen.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Now our existing council didn't want it to happen. Why? Well, you put seven people out. Okay, there's a good chance that they don't have the authority anymore. They're losing from from power. Okay. Well, what I see right now, okay, they got poor people they're running as a group. Okay. The poor people get elected, well, we're back where where we were before. Okay. Is it that? I don't know. Is it good? I don't know. Okay. Everybody has to judge. If you feel that what's happened in the last I'm gonna say, let me backtrack into the where we had problems, let's go back ten years and come forward. If you think it's better to have it set that way, then sure, will to them. Vote for the poor. If you don't think it's gonna be good, then you gotta change. And that's what this whole thing's about, is change. Okay? Actually it's two things change and the question why. Okay? If they can't answer why, change. And uh and that's what I'm I'm looking for. Now, does that mean that if George gets elected that I'm gonna hate everybody because they were from the old school? No. Okay. The one thing the Marine Corps taught me and what I've learned and and the type of organizations that I actually got involved in when I had to make some decisions is that you need everybody to work together. Okay. So yes, I'm gonna work together regardless of who. Okay. Now, there's gotta be a little reciprocity. They have to be willing to work together too. Okay, and that's the big question. Can they work together? Okay, without the quote unquote power structure on that.
SPEAKER_02:So in some ways, when I was on the charter commission and we debated at length the size of the of the city council, five or seven. And uh I've I'm on record as saying in the very beginning, I opposed any change to the structure of the city council, and my mind was changed to seven. In some ways, well, when you had the smaller the council, the more power each individual member has, right? And the more likely council is to get hamstrung by being too small. You increase the size of council, you have to negotiate more and you have to deliberate and work together more because each individual member has less power on their own. And that's the benefit of a larger council. So people said, well, if it's larger, nothing will get done. And I don't, I don't believe that. It may be a little harder to get things done, but that's not always a bad thing. Because I I I explained then as I do now, democracy is inefficient on purpose, right? If you want an efficient government, just have one person in charge. Yeah. But if you want the if you want the people represented well, have a plurality of representatives who have to deliberate and and learn how to work together and negotiate, and then you're more likely to have something representative of the people. That's why I supported a seven-person council.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's it's kind of interesting when you said the the concept of seven, okay. And and that's that was one of the arguments of the council. Okay. Why should we have seven? Okay. Nobody's going to be able to work with seven. That was kind of somewhat of an argument. But they keep forgetting. How many people were on the planning commission?
SPEAKER_02:Nine.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, wait a minute. That's more than seven. Yeah. Therefore, you guys couldn't get anything done on the planning commission. Yeah. Well, that's not necessarily true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:School board is seven, by the way. Totally different from the city, but they're seven. It was we did our homework, and in the end, we we felt like this would be the best thing for the people. All right. So I want to ask you a different question now. I asked you about challenge. What do you think is one of the biggest opportunities ahead of us here in Klaus? And do the same thing, educate us on that opportunity. Why is it such a great opportunity for Klaus and what might we do over the next few years, our community and city government working together to capitalize on that opportunity?
SPEAKER_04:When you sit down and you listen to the people talk, okay, they complain about parking, they complain about parking, they complain about parking. Okay. Uh and then the other one is a little problem. They they complain about the rats.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So let's just take let's just take two two items, parking and rats, okay. Parking is fun, okay? I think if memory serves me right, someplace along the line, city council spent the money to have a parking study done, and I've never heard of the results of that study, okay? And I can imagine what the study said, okay? It's not park vertical, it's park horizontal. Some some okay okay.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What we have to do is we have to learn from around us, okay? And this deals with asphalt. This deals with parking, okay? Okay, we can go to Birmingham. What did Birmingham do to resolve their downtown parking problem?
SPEAKER_02:I have to assume they built parking garages. Well, then I have to assume they built parking garages because they got a bunch of them.
SPEAKER_04:So the question I have is why can't we do that ear in closet? Why can't we put up a garage? Okay. Every morning when I go to work, I pass a parking garage that is on 15 mile west, down close to Southfield, okay, in Birmingham, or maybe and I think it parks 500 cars. Okay. What could happen if we could park 500 cars in the downtown area?
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Now, let me explain the short-sighted people that we have out there. They're gonna say, where can we put it? Well, you know what? I'll leave that up to them because I'm not gonna give them my idea. Okay. It can be done.
SPEAKER_02:It can be done. Interesting. What about the rats?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's a good question. Okay. Uh just to show you the extent that I kind of sometimes research, all right. What I've done is I've driven through the city during garbage day. All right. And and one of the things New York City, okay, did a study, all right, on the rat problem. And everybody knows, guess what? City, if you were to pick one that has rat problems, New York. Is that what they did is they came out and said that, okay, what we're gonna do is we're gonna put garbage containers that you have to put your garbage in with sealed lids. Okay. They had a 23% reduction in rats that they could see. Okay, so if you can't see the rat, they're gone. Okay, they had a 23% reduction. And then what they did is they had special containers for like the restaurants, okay? Again, they were sealed. Okay. Everybody out there, when I ask the question, I want you to raise your hand, okay? How many containers do you see in the in the uh I want to say the business district, okay, that have their tops open? Come on, raise those hands. Okay. Because by the way, back in 2011, there's a letter on the website of the city that says that those people have to ensure that they close the tops of those garbage dumpsters. That's 2011. And we have ordinance police that are supposed to go out and beat them in the head if they're not doing it. Okay. So you can go with freedom of information, ask the city how many citations had they issued. Okay, you'd be surprised. And and again, like I said, this letter dated the 2011 is sitting on the website. Yeah. Okay. On that. Everybody go look for that. Right. Now, what we were gonna do, okay, is the city, okay, had the brilliant idea that we had ARPAR funds, ARPA funds, yeah. Of a hundred thousand dollars. What were we gonna do with that money? Well, they said we're gonna make a heart. Okay. And the big big issue became what are you gonna make the heart out of? We're gonna do it in copper. Okay. I'm gonna put that thing up in the public area someplace, okay? And I'm gonna start a lottery, okay? You pick the day that it gets stolen. Okay? No. Oh, they didn't? Okay. Not yet. Not yet. All right. What I want to do with a hundred thousand dollars is develop some type of solution for the rat problem. Yeah. Is that we buy everybody a closed lid garbage can and they have to do it? And by the way, I asked the garbage collector, the actual people who pick it up and throw it in the trucks. If we had a unified system of garbage trucks, okay, would they be able to pick it up more organized? And he said no. No, it didn't make it on that.
SPEAKER_02:Well, let me ask you, you may have answered this already a little bit. One thing that you think would improve how city council functions in service to the people of Claussen, and I mean this apart from personalities and how they manifest on the council, you can't control that. But what changes to how council operates might make it better at representing the desires and needs of the people and better at deliberating and deciding on the people's business?
SPEAKER_04:In this cycle that I'm going through with the conversations and the ideas that people put out, I think I think the the correct answer is education. Okay. And I think it's done through the organization, okay, that we as and and we and other cities go to okay for answers. Because they do have special programs where you can sit down and you can learn. You can learn about the rules of uh Roger's rules of the border, uh Robert's rules of the border. When and when you can talk, when you can't talk, what's the proper way to handle it so the meeting smoothly goes on? Yes. Okay. Where you have some type of organization and its controls. And that alone will speed up the process. Make everything better.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I really do. All right. Last question's a fun one. You talked about the giant copper heart, which I sense that you don't like that idea. But let's say, let's say we got a windfall of money from someone, and it has to be used on something fun. Can't use it on roads, can't use it on infrastructure. It's got to be something fun, uh, a landmark, a program, something that the people of Clausen can enjoy for years to come. What would be your idea for what to put here in Clausen? That's fun.
SPEAKER_04:Well.
SPEAKER_02:Depending on the amount of money. It's a lot of money.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, a lot of money. Blank check. Okay. I want you to think of uh parents or England.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Uh the Ferris wheel. That huge, huge Ferris wheel.
SPEAKER_02:Well, the eye in London.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. On that. That's what I would put them up.
SPEAKER_02:A Ferris wheel.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's a first.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But where would you put it? Don't tell us. Say.
SPEAKER_04:That's a good question. There you go. Okay. That's a good place. Well, we have a park.
SPEAKER_02:We do.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:We got more than one park.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:That we if we got we got a skateboard in the park, we can put a terrace wheel on the park.
SPEAKER_02:There we go. That's your campaign slogan right now. Yep. George George's will get you a Ferris wheel, Clausen. Got it. Well, thanks for sitting down and having coffee with us. And uh thanks to the folks here at Kave for staying open a little late for us to finish our interview.
SPEAKER_03:I I do have to say something to their benefit. Yes, this place is just marvelous. It is. The first time I've been in here since you remodeled, I think you guys did enough damage on it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay. It really is beautiful. So everybody listening to this, come and get uh get your next cup of coffee at Kave. And uh George Georges is running for city council this fall. I'm here in Clawson, and we are thankful to you, sir, for sitting down and visiting with us today. And I learned a lot.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening to this episode of Coffee with Clawson Candidates. Remember to check out the other 13 Closet candidates in the other 13 episodes. And if you found this podcast to be valuable to you, please share it with a neighbor in Clawson. Don't forget to support our local sponsors who made this podcast possible. Special thanks to Blair Memorial Public Library, Clawson Historical Museum, and Coffee Cafe, all in Clawson, for letting us record 13 of the 14 episodes at their locations. Make sure you go visit every one of them and tell them thank you. The Coffee with Clawson Candidates podcast is written, directed, hosted, recorded, and edited by B.T. Irwin, and produced by James Flanagan at Podcast Your Voice Studios in Southfield. Visit the Clawson City Elections page at cityofclawson.com to learn how, when, and where to cast your ballot this fault. We'll post a link in the show notes. Get out there and vote, Claudson. Until next time, grace and peace to you and all your Clawson neighbors.
