Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Have a cup of coffee with candidates for elected offices in Clawson, Michigan, this fall 2025. Clawson resident and former Clawson City Charter Commission member BT Irwin sits down for friendly and relaxed conversations with all 14 candidates, asking them questions that shine the light on their Clawson stories, their character, and what they imagine and plan for Clawson (and how they will bring it about if they get into office). These interviews reveal the candidates as they really are (and not as they appear to be in campaign literature and soundbites).
Coffee with Clawson Candidates
Bruce Anderson, candidate for Clawson City Council
Bruce Anderson is a longtime Clawson resident who made the choice to enter elected public service in 2021. That year, he won a seat on Clawson City Council, where he continues to serve. Anderson is running to keep his seat for another four-year term.
For your hometown Clawson real estate needs, get KW Domain certified Realtor Erin Redmond at eredrealestate@gmail.com or call (586) 242-8419.
Expecting and new parents, certified postpartum doula and pediatric sleep coach Lynn Eads can help you and your new baby settle into your life together. Learn more at learnwithlynne.com.
Get out and vote, Clawson! Learn all about how, when, and where to vote by clicking here or call (248) 435-4500x118.
Friends, hello, I'm B.T. Irwin, your neighbor in Clausen for 13 years now. Welcome to Coffee with Clausen Candidates, a limited podcast series that gives each candidate for Clausen City Council and Mayor their own episode. These are in-depth, but relaxed conversations in which all 14 candidates reveal their hearts, minds, and personalities. More on that in a minute or two. First, please know that the information you're hearing in this introduction is the same for all 14 episodes. So if you already heard it when listening to another episode, you don't have to listen to it again. Just skip straight to the interview. If this is your first episode of Coffee with Clausen candidates, I think the information I'm about to share with you in this introduction will help you understand the election coming up in Clausen this fall and how this podcast can help you choose who will get your votes. Before we get to that, you may want to know who is hosting this show and whether he's fit for your time and trust. Now, I'm not a professional journalist, but I do have a lot of experience interviewing public figures for the Christian News Organization where I work part-time. More important to Clausen folks like you, however, is my unusual level of involvement in Clausen government over the last few years. It started in 2020 when I accepted an appointment to the Zoning Board of Appeals. In November 2021, I was elected to the Clausen City Charter Commission, where I served until the people of Clausen adopted the revised city charter we proposed in November 2023. Through those experiences, I've gotten to know Clausen City government and many of the people who work in it. So that's me. Now let's talk about the election happening in Claussen this fall, 2025. This is your crash course. If you didn't know, this year's Claussen City election is historic for at least two reasons. First, it is the first general election to take place after the adoption of the revised city charter in November 2023. This fall, our city council is expanding from one two-year mayor and four at-large four-year members to one four-year mayor and six four-year members. Second, if the 14 candidates running for city offices in Clausen this fall are not a record, I'd like to see an election where more candidates ran. I can't imagine that we've ever had this many people running for office at the same time in Clausen. So this is a big election with lots of candidates running for more seats than Clausen has ever had on its city ballot. There are a total of six seats up for election in what will be a seven-seat city council come November 2025. I think it can get confusing, so I'm going to break it down for you. First, the office of mayor is up for election. The mayor chairs the city council and is a voting member of it. Until now, Clausen's mayor always served a two-year term. The revised charter, however, changes the mayor's term to four years to match the other members of City Council. Whoever the people of Clausen elect as their mayor this fall will serve from November 2025 to November 2029. Two candidates are running for mayor: incumbent mayor Paula Milan, who has been in office since 2021, and Clawson City Councilmember Sue Moffitt. Next, there are four at-large city council seats up for election. Two of those seats are existing seats with expiring terms. Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd occupy those seats, which they won as the top two vote getters in the November 2021 election. The two existing seats are for four-year terms, running from November 2025 to November 2029. And then there are two new seats that the revised city charter adds to the City Council this year. Of the 10 candidates running, the top four vote getters will take the four at-large seats. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, 2025 to 2029, but the fourth place vote getter will serve only two years until 2027. This will happen only once. In 2027, that seat will become a four-year term like all the others. The revised charter calls for this unusual arrangement so that the City Council eventually gets on a cycle of four of its seats being up for election every four years, and three of its seats being up for election every four years on a rotating basis. So, in review, there are four at-large city council seats up for election this fall 2025, two of them existing and two of them new. The top three vote getters will serve four-year terms, and the fourth place vote getter will serve a two-year term. The ten candidates running for those four seats are incumbents Bruce Anderson and Glenn Shepherd, and challengers George Georges, Scott Manning, Meredith Peltinen, Billy Rinshaw, Heather Rinkovich, Loris Lowinski, Alex Speeshock, and Scott Tinlin. Are you keeping score? We're up to five seats on the ballot. I said there are six, so here's the last one. Back in the spring, Councilmember Matt Benkowski resigned his seat because he was moving out of the city. Benkowski won his four-year term in November 2023, so he was to fill his seat until November 2027. When a city council member leaves office during her or his term, the revised city charter calls for City Council to appoint a replacement who will serve until the next regular city election, at which time the public will elect someone to finish out the full term. Not long after Benkowski resigned, City Council appointed Richard Scott to fill the seat until the November 2025 election. On your ballot, this City Council seat will be listed apart from the other four. Whichever candidate gets the most votes for this seat will serve out the rest of Benkowski's term that runs through November 2027. Scott is running to retain the seat for the next two years. Aidan O'Rourke is running to challenge him for it. So now that you know what is up for election in Clausen this fall and who is running, let's get to how this podcast might help you decide who gets your votes. I interviewed all 14 candidates, one episode for each one. I wanted to do something different from the other candidate interviews that are out there. Not to say that those other interviews are not helpful. I think they are quite helpful and I follow them myself. But I find that the usual candidate interview format to be too narrow or too short to really get to know the candidates as people. I like to know where candidates stand on the quote-unquote issues, yes, but I really want to know what they know, how and what they think, what makes them tick, who they are as human beings. So I designed these podcast interviews to be friendly and relaxed and full of open-ended questions. I wanted the candidates to feel like they could open up and just talk about what they think is important and why. I also wanted them to be able to talk about themselves, without the pressure of needing to react to questions about issues in one-minute sound bites. I can say that I enjoyed every one of the 14 conversations as I sat across from candidates at places like the Clausen Historical Museum, Blair Memorial Public Library, and Cave Cafe in downtown Clausen. Even interviewed one candidate on a front porch. And I learned a lot from just about every candidate who opened up to me. So I hope you learn a lot too, and that in learning about the candidates, you'll fill out your ballot with confidence and even, dare I say it, joy. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode of Coffee with Clausen Candidates. I'm sitting here at Cave Cafe in downtown Clausen with Bruce Anderson, who is a 29-year resident of our city. He was elected to city council four years ago. He has served for the last four years, and he is running for re-election, a new four-year term this fall, 2025. He's one of oh, there are 14 candidates running total. Two of those for mayor and the rest for city council seats, and he is one of them. Bruce, thanks for having a cup of coffee with us today.
SPEAKER_01:Well, glad to be here. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00:All right, so tell us your Clausen story.
SPEAKER_01:And Clausen's story. Well, I grew up in Roy Logan. Uh graduated from Kimball High School in 1981. And it was interesting because growing up in Royal Logan, I had friends lived in Clausen. Yeah. Went to Clausen and I graduated. And it was funny. They would say, Oh yeah, Clausen's the greatest city. It's such a wonderful place. And back then I'd say, Well, come on, it's it looks like Royal Logan. I don't how different can it be? How wonderful can it be? And then later on, my wife and I got our first house in Madison Heights. We were there about six, seven years. And then when it came time to get another house, we talked about it. My wife said, Well, I like living in Clausen. It was a very short list of communities we wanted to move to. And I said, Yeah, it's fine with me. And so in 1996, we moved to Clausen, and sure enough, it was like my friends told me back in high school. It really was, I'm gonna say a no, no offense to our neighbors, but it really was a better community to live in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's a pretty special place. My wife grew up in Rochester. She calls it, she still calls it the village, because it was the village when she was growing up. I grew up in a small town in Ohio, and I think one of the reasons we ended up in Clausen is it reminds us of where we come from, you know, the small communities that we come from. So, city council, not a full-time job, does not pay enough money to probably even buy a value meal. So you got to be doing something during the day. Tell us uh tell us about your day job. My day job is I'm an engineer in the auto industry.
SPEAKER_01:About 37 years of that. Um I've been at Mag International for 34 of those years. And basically, it's I say it. My experience as an engineer, I think, makes me fairly qualified to solve problems and understand how well problems can be solved. Because some problems don't have good solutions. So I think it's helped me in that thing. And also as an engineer, you're not gonna do it all yourself. It's not in the engineering I'm doing. You have to work as part of a team to have a successful program. And I've been part of a program, I've launched about seven programs, like our company, and I think it's given me pretty good experience as far as working as part of a team, which when you're on council, you're not gonna do it by yourself. That's right.
SPEAKER_00:You will do it as part of a team. That's right. I uh one of the things I love about living here is just how many engineers there are. And when I worked at Habitat for Humanity, uh, you know, we we got thousands of volunteers that came through every year to work on our houses, and I'd say more than half of them were engineers, which always made working with them on a home-build site a lot of fun and also a little frustrating because they were engineers. It was just funny. Sometimes they didn't know each other, but I we'd see them all like gathered around trying to solve a problem that wasn't actually a problem. You know, but they they were just they're like, we have to solve this. So, yeah, all right, yeah. You are not the first engineer to be on this show. So we've we've understanding. Yeah, we've got a few running for council this year. I I love to ask people what they read or what they're listening in this day and age, what they're listening to. Uh, I listen to a lot of books on audio. What's on your bedstand these days?
SPEAKER_01:Well, basically, I've been a pretty active reader most of my life. I really like to read history.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I've people laugh at me. I've got a lot of trivial knowledge of history. I tell people I I stick it in the part of the brain that's normally reserved for sports trivia. I have very little of that. But yeah, I like to read history. I think it's inter I think government is interesting, human interactions are interesting. I never desired to have a political career, but I understand how the political system works. My knowledge actually, my knowledge of government was more towards a national and state level. Yeah. So I had to learn a bit about municipal government, which is a little bit different.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, that's pretty much my reading, is basically history. And as far as news and information, you know, current events, honestly, I like to read the whole spectrum.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'll read Washington Post, New York Times, I'll read Fox News, I'll do Wall Street Journal. Because my life's experience taught me that before you can make decisions, you need to gather a full range of information. Yeah. A full range of data. The data may or may not be good, you may or may not agree with it, but you need to hear the whole thing before you can really make a decision.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think sometimes even hearing things that you disagree with at first, since we're not all knowing beings, it never hurts maybe to learn something new or or pick up a new perspective. Yes. So that's kind of where I derive my information and knowledge as far as political things is concerned.
SPEAKER_00:Let's see if we can get a book recommendation out of you. I I love reading history and government and politics too. The last really, really good book I read was a biography on James Garfield. A president that most people don't even think about.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, by Charlie Goodyear. He's the author of the book. Fantastic book. I highly recommend it. Um and it speaks to these times in more ways than people would expect. So um, do you have a book that you read recently or a couple years ago? You'd be like, yeah, this is really good. Everybody ought to everybody ought to read this one.
SPEAKER_01:The best ones I've read have been a few years. Gosh, how long you have to listen? Uh there was one book, believe it or not, I went to Lawrence Tech Engineering School. But I had one humanities teacher that was outstanding. How an excellent humanities teacher ended up at Lawrence Tech book is another story by itself. But I took every class I could from him. And there was one particular class on English or British history in the 1600s. And they had a book called The Century of Revolution. British history from I think 1602 to 1715. Yeah. 1602 being the passing of Queen Elizabeth and the beginning of the Stuart Kings. 1714 being the revolution which brought in the uh the German anti-graining. And I gotta say, as I read it, again it was required reading for the class, but it was almost like, wow, it's like fun. It was very enlightening how much that time period really developed what we'll call British culture, the British imperial mindset, and basically British common law and culture, which was the springboard for our own. You can read in the the history of the 1600s, which coincidentally that's when we settled the United States, you know, the thought in the 13 colonies. In fact, 12 of them were in place before 1700. And you can see the origins of our British society, our British common law. Uh it was very enlightening. It's it's again amazing how thoughts are present as new, they're forgotten, and then represented in the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm a nerd, I'm eating it up right now.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's good, but not a really long book either. And it's not just history, and each chapter would break it down to politics, technology, culture, art. So it would break each of the pieces of the century into multiple parts, and then analyze them from all those points of view. So anyway, I'm sorry, not to get into the weeds on that.
SPEAKER_00:Those aren't weeds to me, man. I'm like, sign me up. I want to read that book. All right, so that's my recommendation. All right, all right, all right. We could go, like you said, we could go on about that forever. But let's get down to uh Clausen. There are a few thousand people who live in Clausen who are eligible to run for office, but only 14 of them said, yes, I will do it. You are one of those 14. Why you and why now?
SPEAKER_01:Well, if you'd have asked me five years ago, would you like to be on Clausen City Council? I said no, thank you. Crazy. And then four years ago, let's just say I know a lot of people that work for the city and are involved in the city, whereas I, even as a 25-year resident, was not. And things were very chaotic. Yeah. And I actually was recruited. I was asked to run. I probably never would have done it on my own, but I felt I had to do it. And just to give you an example, in a two-year period, the city burnt through four city managers, five city clerks. Yeah. And you don't have to be a municipal government expert to know that's chaotic. You can't have turnover like that in a private corporation, a government, a nonprofit. You just can't do it. So I thought, well, that's gotta end. So I ran and I I dove into it full tilt and I got elected. And that's that's so that's how that was four years ago. Yes. In the last four years of serving, I'd like to say it was always fun, but it wasn't. Um has its good days and its bad days. Um, that can be said, but let's just say I think overall we've made a lot of progress the last four years. One of our best moves was to hire a city manager in March, about March of 2022. He's been with us three and a half years and doing doing a good job, and that's brought some real stability to the city government. So, yeah, I'm one of my best proudest accomplishments is yes, I helped hire him. Yeah. And in fact, we extended his contract to seven years because I thought he did such a good job, and we needed the continuity. Yes, yes, that's true. So that's so that's why I ran then. Now, and the reason I'm again running for re-elected is I want to continue that to go on. One thing I've learned painfully in life in general, and specifically in Klaus and City Government, or politics in general, there are people that they want to they're like activists. But activists can be positive or negative. And sometimes people are active just because they want to rattle a cage or make a difference. It's more about emotional satisfaction that they did something as opposed to actually making a constructive change. And I am concerned that some people may be running just for that. They think, you know, I'd like to run, I'd like to be on some console, I'd like the experience. Well, that's fine and good, but really what do you bring into the table? Are you prepared to compromise? Are you prepared to work with others? These are important things that have to be decided. I know as my campaign progresses, I'll be um supporting various people in my literature, but all of them have either mayorial experience or city council experience or uh planning commission experience. In other words, a whole lot more than I had four years ago. And I'll support these people because I I know them and I trust them to be experienced and reasonable people. No smirching the other contenders, but I will say that I I don't know, I mean, I met them all, and they asked them to find good people, but you have to face the fact that Clausen City Council does not run the city of Clausen. In essence, the city manager runs the government day to day. The city of Clausen, or the Clausen City Council acts as an oversight committee. I mean that in the strongest sense of the word. We control his budgets, we can vote down his budgets, we can hire him, we can fire him, things like that. So we do have authority, but that authority has to be handled judiciously. Ooh, I love that word. Excuse me. So it's and it's really the dynamic is very important, the relationship of the city council and the city manager. Uh in our when some cities are larger, they would call the strong mayor model, but then mayor is like the chief executive, right? The council is like the legislature and things like that. We're actually what they call the strong city manager, weak mayor model. Which I think it's relative terminology, right? Weak, strong. But in the end, we the council has to work in collaboration with the city government. We need to maintain a positive flow of information. And of course, the city manager does not have five bosses for coming up next election. Seven bosses. He has one boss, which is the council. He reports to the council as a body, not to individuals. So that's a key thing. Understanding that I think is a very important dynamic.
SPEAKER_00:So that's why I'm really supporting people that have that experience. That experience. I probably should ask this question before, this next question before the one I just asked you. That's right. When we were talking about, you know, Britain in the 17th century, for example. Could you name one or two people after whom you would most like to resemble how you go about the work of being an elected public official? What about their habits and style appeal to you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's an interesting question. You know, my years ago I asked my wife, uh, who do you think my role models are? Yeah. She said, You don't have any. And I think in a way it's true. I don't have a role model. I would say I have a bunch. I have a bunch of people, I say a bunch. Several people I've looked at in my life and say, you know, I like how they did that. Or I like how they said that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I will actually model myself in some cases. But it's not one person, it's been several. People I've known, and then as much as we can know, a person from history.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So to answer your question, if I had to name two, these are people, of course, they're not council members, they're presidents, but to just to grab two because they're recognized, uh, Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan. Yeah. And you might say, well, that seems like a weird contradiction. I mean, their politics are quite different. But really, what they had in common was, first of all, just their style. Very, very charming, very laid back, very moderate, not a lot of crazy actions, not a lot of outbursts of outrage. They just had a way of almost just calming people down. You know, they called Reagan the Teflon president and Franklin Roosevelt, he just was maddening. He'd sit there, you know, just talking to people with the fireside chats, and his opposition just went crazy because he just had that grandfatherly, both of them had a real grandfatherly way about them. And also both of them lived in very difficult times. Both of them could see threats to the country and appreciate them better than a lot of people. Franklin Roosevelt clearly saw the threat from Nazi Germany and Japan, whereas the American people, by and large, were isolationists, both parties. And he had to kind of pull us along and get us through a very dangerous time in history. Reagan, in a similar situation, he he clearly saw the dangers imposed by the Soviet Union. They had to be met. Fortunately, not in a war, but they had to be met. And a lot of people out there, both parties, would say, well, let's let's learn to work with the Soviet Union. You know, let's they're powerful, let's let's make a deal, let's get along. And I'm going to and interestingly enough, he was president from 80 to 80, well, 81 to 88. Yeah. Soviet Union collapsed in 91. So you know, three years after he's done being president. And a lot of that was he took a path and he had to drag a lot of people along the way. But I think to me that that's what a again, I'm I'm looking at top level people here. I can't give you the name of a mayor or council member that is inspired per se. But to me, that's there's an old saying is a really good leader will leave you and you don't even know you're being done. It's like they're just pulling you along, they're not pushing you, they're pulling you. And they're pulling you in such a way that Yeah, I'm I'm I'm good for that. I'll go along.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I may not be perfectly happy, but go along. I'm trying to follow that person. And that's kind of the way I see leadership is the good leaders they don't bully, they don't boss around. They also make decisions, some of which are hard, some of which are unpleasant, but they do it. And I guess to that extent, same as true even on city council. We've had to make decisions that were compromises. I know we've approved site plans that I wasn't totally in love with, but okay, we've got to make that compromise and get it done. So hope that answers the question.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it's great. Now I'm gonna follow it up with what is gonna be your Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall mo I'm just kidding. We're not but good answer to that. I I I want to get down to the nitty-gritty of governing the city of Clausen. Sure. So, what's one thing about how the city works that the public ought to know, but most folks don't know, and how might how might we change that?
SPEAKER_01:Good question. The big one that jumps to mind is it's amazing how many residents, not just in Clausen, but all over, don't understand that the city and the school district are two separate government bodies. Yeah, that's true. We have people come to the city hall and say, I don't like what the school's doing, and they'll rant along and say, ma'am, sir, or I'm sorry, we don't control them. Yes. Totally different government entity. Um I mean, how should I say this? If you look at a map, not only are they separate government entities, but they're not even necessarily lined up border-wise. For example, if you if you live in Troy, you might go to the Troy school system, you might go to the Birmingham school system, you might go to the Royal Oak school system, you might go to the Warren Consolidated School System, because the boundaries fall that way. If you live in Sterling Heights, you don't go to a Sterling Heights school district because there's one Utica Sterling Heights are all merged into one district. Whereas Clausen, quite uniquely, the boundaries of the school district and the city are exactly the same. And that really helps us, I think, because it our interests are completely in common.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think one thing that our current city managers really do a very good job at is work working with and cooperating with the city, the um school district.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that's very key. The city needs a good functioning school district as well as a good functioning city. So I would say that's the one thing people don't always seem to get. One thing I did have to remind them of in a council meeting was we can't tell the school district how to handle their buildings and their land. Once they sell it, it is now private property, no longer belonging to the school district, and how that is developed falls under the authority of the city. Yeah. The Planning Commission, Zoning Commission, and City Council. And we, for example, where Shalm used to be, yes, the development there. The developers had a certain plan they kind of developed in conjunction with the school district. Of course, now it's their land. If we look at it, it said, nope, not the right layout, too big. Um, you gotta change it up, make it more integrated to the community. They had to take out a few homes, less revenue, less income. But we told them sorry that you've got to make that change. That's an example to where the city, I mean, can again, once the school district sells property, it's not part of the school district anymore. It becomes part of the city.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's that I noticed that too through the years, people don't know the difference. One thing I will point out though is that I don't know if they ever did this before, but city council and the school board have had some workshops together over the last couple of years, which seems like a really positive development.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I would agree. And one thing one example jumps to mind is now that all the schools are on the same campus, they've decided uh decided to hire a resource officer. Yes. Which is a way of a police officer, a very sanitized way of saying it. But and but they only need this officer nine months of the year. So the other three will be employed by the city.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Has additional manpower during the summer. And I think it's an excellent way to cooperate, just to share the resource. You need them nine months of the year, yep. In three months, yeah, we can use them in the summer, especially 4th of July and other outdoor events that happen out here. Yeah, we could use an extra quick sum. So I I just thought that, again, an excellent example of our city manager finding a way to cooperate with the school district. Because honestly, in the school district, they were pushing a bond millage and we can and a lot of people didn't like what they were doing. And I know when I looked at it, I said, well, you know, I don't know, I totally agree, but I'm assuming the school board and the administration has studied the problems and is doing the best solution they can. I'm not gonna second guess that Bursai. But again, there was a lot of anger, and believe it or not, the uh again, I've been here for 29 years. I know the history of the bond villages, and one of them was getting ready to fade off and give this people a pretty decent tax reduction in terms of rates, and what got voted back in kind of like kept it going. And so it was not a tax increase per se, it was like a an elimination of a hoped-for tax reduction. Right, right. And a lot of people were angry at them for that. And again, you can be hangry and disagree, but I think in the end, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. They have the power, and of course, they put the bond village on there, it's up to the citizens to vote. But I said let's say this some people were were very unhappy what the school district did, but in the end, do what they did, you move forward, and you cooperate. Yeah. They did what they did because they believe that was in the best interest of the citizens. Citizens voted in, move forward. So again, and I think there's even more cooperation um opportunities that are there that our city manager and the school district superintendent are working on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I find that very encouraging. Yes. But to be clear, the city of Clausen and the Clausen public schools are two separate entities. They are indeed. Yes, you heard it here, folks. All right, I want you to pick what you think is one of the biggest, most consequential challenges we face. Face here in Clausen. Tell us why that challenge is so big and consequential. And then put on your teacher hat and give us a 101 on the challenge. How did it emerge? What is feeding into it? And how might we as a community and city government do something about it over the next term or two?
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you've probably heard most of my fellow candidates talk about infrastructure. And I would say yes, it is our most pressing issue. And I feel I have some extra qualification there because I began my college is my college career as being a civil engineer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_01:I went about two years. I actually worked on the field for I've worked on survey crews, laying out parking lots, sewers, things like that. I did not stay in civil engineering, I shifted the mechanical, but I kind of know enough to be dangerous, shall we say. And a lot of people you'll hear them make the statement, well, if they just maintained that infrastructure properly, they wouldn't have the problem. They'll say, our infrastructure's in bad shape because it wasn't maintained properly. The fact is, you know, sorry, everything in this world degrades with time. Yes. You can go see the best doctor in the world, you can have the best health habits, you will not live forever.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So it goes with infrastructure. This city, much of what you see around you was built in the late 50s, 60s, and 70s. And it was all built kind of quickly. And now, how far we're 50, 60 years beyond that. Yes. And I can say that we have a maintenance budget for infrastructure, some of the best DBW around. The infrastructure has been maintained, but the trouble is, because it was built in kind of a short period of time, it needs to be reconstructed in a certain period of time. Now the bills are coming due again. Yeah. Kind of a surge. I mean, some things. So there's a city manager, again, I've really got to give him a pat on the back for this. He sat down his first thing when he was interviewed, he said, you've got a problem. It needs to be fixed. And so we went through it, and he put a plan together in conjunction with DDW and in conjunction with our um civil engineering firm, AEW, and they put a plan together. And again, I'm not a civil engineer, but I am an engineer by profession. I read a lot of reports, let's put it that way. Yes. And I read their very extensive report of what's lost in the situation, their recommendations. And I was quite impressed that they really had their handle on the issue. Question is, how do we move forward? Yes. So a lot of people say, oh, well, let's go get grants. Oh, we need grants. We can't afford a million. We've got grants. Well, there are state and federal grants available, and our city manager has pursued them and will continue to pursue them. But one point he did make that was very strong is it helps me in my argument with the state and federal government when we're making some effort to not just go to the state and federal authorities with a hat in hand, say, can you please give me some money?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because guess what? There's a zillion communities that are doing the same thing. Yes, yes. So the good thing was they developed a bond. First of all, they developed a plan to the top 37 projects in priority list. I looked at them, it's like, yep, that looks like the right priorities. And he said, this is the amount of money, our finance directory put together a good plan, and basically acquired a bond millage. And the bond millage, thankfully, was passed by the citizens, and things are rolling now. In fact, even before that bond millage was passed, the city manager went and got some grants, about up 1.1 million from the federal government, I think just under a million from the state. With that, we've done like Broadacre, Washington, by the school, Selfridge and Phillips, where they meet. We've done Red Ruth Street. So even before the bond mills, we were taking action, but you know, we can only go so far without more fun. The greatest plan in the world means nothing without the resources. And now the city has the citizens have voted us the resources and it's rolling. Right now, they'll be tearing up Washington by trucks, which is a horrible piece of road. Come spring, they'll be hitting, I think, Drion or School. Not really visible in Northwest Corinthians. That's a disaster.
SPEAKER_00:Those are not even roads anymore. Exactly. It's like driving on the moon.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. So these are all, I mean, and you can get on the website and check and find out. I'm going to be honest with you, some people might not like the roads, and they look on the list and go, where's my load? Where's my road? Where's my sewer? Where's my water main? Fact is, we have to prioritize. And the good news also is Mr. Aker, our city manager, will continue to pursue grants. And he's in a better position to do so, having being able to tell, hey, this is what we in the city have lost in our financing. Can you help us out? And again, he's got his work cut out for him, especially since a lot of the grant funds at the state and federal level are are going down, not. But he's doing that. And of course, by getting additional grant money, it does two things. It either helps cover overruns that may occur or it allows other opportunities. You know, instead of 37 projects, it becomes 38, 39, 40. So that's that's kind of the big thrust of infrastructure improvement. The other is a parallel program he developed, which is called the Miscellaneous Concrete Project. I know, a very, very generic-y kind of name. What it is, the city, out of its own budget, we have an$11 million budget, and out of that we spend about between$250,000 and$300,000 every year, and that is done basically patching miscellaneous sections of concrete. You know, like you go down the street, sometimes the road's in good shape, and all of a sudden there's like a patch of like 20, 30 p.m. Yes. Sometimes when you're the drains, sometimes just the nature of the terrain. And you don't need to fix the whole road. You just need to fix like that 30-foot, 40-foot long section. And every year they've identified candidates for the miscellaneous concrete program, and they've been doing that. And I think that's a great side-by-side because, frankly, the infrastructure plan is kind of hitting big projects that have to tear up whole roads and tear up whole streammates. Sometimes you just need a little bit here and there, and that's what's happening. So it's kind of a two-pronged, the big prong and little prong. And I think it's it's a good plan. I want to support it, and I want to support the city manager and the administration. I have to admit, I'm really impressed with our DPW. They, for example, had to present the plan to council. I was quite impressed with their thoroughness. And thus I'm very happy. And also with our engineering contracting service, AEW. And so I'm very confident that they will execute it properly. I know certain people have gotten on social media and spouted off about how they're not doing it the right way. You know, all I can say is you can say anything you want. But I've been involved in the details. I'm quite confident they'll execute the plan about as good as you get asked for.
SPEAKER_00:I uh you've given as good a description of the factors in play as anyone has given when I've asked about it. So I'll ask this follow-up question that I haven't asked anyone else. I mean, is there anything infrastructure does age and it does deteriorate, and we are putting a lot of money into fixing some infrastructure that's just really kind of age to the point of it's it's it's in really bad shape. I mean, is there anything that we can do that would set us up for a better future with infrastructure than we have had, you know, let's say if we go back in a time machine to the 50s and 60s when they put in the infrastructure that we have now, and maybe we can look at some things they could have done different so that even though infrastructure does age and it does degrade over time, maybe it wouldn't be so dire in the present. Is there anything we can do right now with the way that we're doing infrastructure that will set up the future a little better than we were we were set up?
SPEAKER_01:Well, revising the past for just a moment. The reason some of our infrastructure is looking pretty tough is it was recognized years ago. You've got to rebuild it in stages over time. And they've done a lot of that. I know when we came to the city, there was a bond that we passed in 2008 through 11. There were some definite improvements made. And then something called the big financial drop happened in 2009. Yeah. And what it did is it dropped property values. When you dropped property values, you dropped taxable value. That's right. So communities all it wasn't just claws, and it was all sorts of communities. Suddenly, because most of their tax revenues from property tax, suddenly it had big shortfalls in property or in income in tax. Because not based on income tax or sales tax, that's property tax. So with that, there probably needed to be another wave implemented probably in the late teens. Like the one the wave I'm that was most recent, it was probably 08 to 011, 12. But then there's nothing. Yeah. There should have been like another wave in the late teams. It didn't happen for several reasons. One, the property value is so low, the revenue's low, but where's the money gonna come from? Yeah, right. Another one was I saw the original report, I think they looked at it and thought, oh my lord, the task is so big. How do we do it? They did nothing. So now we're like doing another wave. So I think to answer your original question, sorry, is there something we can do? I think you just have to be mindful that even when this wave is done, it's financed over a period of about 17 years. At the end of 17 years, or actually before, it'll all be paid for in 17 years. But the payments won't drop off suddenly, they'll drop, they'll begin to drop in, I think, 12 years. And then somewhere about there, 12 to 17 years, we will have to pass another bond millage to again reconstruct other parts of our infrastructure. So that's the future. Uh, another one is if I could uh touch upon what in one of your previous interviewees, um the trees in the bushes um of the town. Believe it or not, yeah, I got an education in that. Basically, trees help infrastructure is freezes itself because when you shade something, the sun doesn't make it as hot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So thus the extremes of temperature are not so hot. So infrastructure actually ages better when you've got trees. I know it sounds you're thinking concrete, strong trees, cushy huggy, but no, they actually do help each other.
SPEAKER_00:I was just thinking more along the lines of our, you know, some of the people in my neighborhood, and we have a lot of trees in our neighborhood, complain about how the trees we have our sewer line cleaned up twice a year for the roots.
SPEAKER_01:But that's uh city line or your fruit line?
SPEAKER_00:Our the line that runs from our house to the city sewer line. We have it cleaned out twice a year, and that's we call that the tree tax, you know. That's the tax we pay to have the tree that we love. But you know, heaving up the sidewalk and things like that. So I I reckon some people do think the trees are bad for the infrastructure, but in fact, they are good for your infrastructure.
SPEAKER_01:They are they can be bad short term, but I think long term they're good. So it depends on how you want to slice it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you for that engineer's description of the challenge. Let's uh let's talk about opportunities. What is I want you to give us a crash course on one of the biggest opportunities ahead of us here in Clausen? What opportunity if city government and residents can come together and take action on it over the next couple of terms will be a real game changer for Clausen now and for generations coming?
SPEAKER_01:I'm sorry, a game changer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like what's an opportunity that you see ahead of us right now here in the city that if we can capitalize on that opportunity, it would it would make a real difference to the future of Clausen.
SPEAKER_01:Let me think about that for a minute because really I think one of the biggest is the cooperation with the uh city and the school uh the school district. There are many opportunities there. Think about it. You've got school facilities that sit empty for days, weeks, and months at a time. Those could be used for city activities. I know there's some level of cooperation, but it could definitely get better. And with that, people say, well, we need to tear it on and build new. We can do this. Well, maybe we could, or maybe there's this beautiful building the school district's got that we can use it during the summer, or we can use and then vice versa, we may have some facilities for them that we're not utilizable to that they can use. Yeah, so you know, there's the school district has embarked on an adventure, okay, and that adventure has some uncertainty to it, and I think the support of the city will help them also. So I think those again, we are unique because the school district and the city are exactly the same community. Yeah. So I think those are the opportunities. I think we can again, it's I'm kind of drifting into the school district here. I believe right now 30% of their students are from out of district, which is very high, frankly, in my opinion. And I'm not saying we should reduce that, but we need to ensure that the percentage is of cost and residents is large enough to ensure mutual ownership of the issues. We don't want to think of that 30% got big enough and big enough, we really wouldn't be a school district anymore. We'd be like a s a really big charter school, which I don't think is in the interest of the community or anyone at large. So so again, I think going back to school district again, they uh built they're gonna build some homes on some of these sites. They're hoping that families with children that will go to the school district, and hopefully that'll occur. And I think there's enough capacity to deal with that in the current plan. But I think we we don't need to be constantly yelling to the world, hey, we have a wonderful school system here, please send your kid here. That's I think it's a great option, school choice is a good thing, but I don't think lost in schools should be heavily dependent upon it. And I think that's another way in which the city helps them. Our police department is right there next to the school. Yes. So that I think is a real plus. Yeah. Which I think would attract people in general, whether it's a person from outside the district or somebody who lives in the city that's thinking about do I want to send my kid to Clawson schools or private schools? Yes. Yes. So I think again, the cooperation between the city and the school district is key. And I think the current city manager is making some real progress there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Good stuff. Well, what's one thing you think would improve how city council functions in service to the people of Clawson? And I mean, apart from the personalities on the council and how they manifest, you can't control that. What changes might make city council better at representing the desires and needs of the people and better at deliberating and deciding on the people's business? And you've been there for four years, so you know as well as anybody.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's interesting. Sometimes people have issues with the city and they and they contact the city manager's office or the D V Dub in the police, and they generally try to resolve issues. But then every now and then, is you know, some people sometimes the answer they can help them, sometimes they cannot. And some sometimes the answer is I'll do what you need, or I'll give you half of what you want, or I can't help you. That's life, right? Yeah, and some people don't know how to take no for an answer. So they'll shoot off emails to see council managers and say, hey, I've had this problem, yada yada yada, and the city hasn't helped me at all, or they'll say, they'll send an email saying, Um, our city manager has not responded to my last three emails. I think this is terrible, you represent the city, blah, blah. And whenever I get those, I will inquire in the situation. That's kind of my job as a city council member is to represent the citizens. And if they don't feel the government's properly addressing their issue, we need to find out. Because after all, even though the city manager and his staff run the city day to day, if we think they're not running it like they should, we need to say something. Maybe get involved, maybe give them more resources. Who knows? And many times in these investigations, I'll find out. I mean, I I've spoken to some of our citizens for like a half hour at a time on the phone. And some of them are legitimate, and the city manager and this administration is working with the people. And frankly, I'll bet they're getting worked, they're being treated much better than those citizens would in a larger city where there's less of a small town feel. Yeah. So I'm I'm pretty satisfied that in general the city government is doing their best to meet the needs of the citizen. But some of them, again, will not take no for an answer. So when they they say I've I've sent four emails and no response, well, that's because you've already been answered, the answer was no. Sorry. Or the answer was something you didn't like. And these individuals will shoot emails, they will come to city council, they make public statements. Some of them are very disrespectful in public conduct. That's First Amendment for you. Yeah. And so there can sometimes be the impression that, oh, this the city's not doing a good job of taking care of its citizens. Again, as part of my job is if it bubbles up to my level, I need to get into it. So I've called people, I've talked to the city manager, get his it's the old, it's classic conflict resolution. Yeah. We've got two people that are not apparently not getting along, or not res, we've got an issue that needs to be resolved. You talk to both sides of the issue. It is very important as a council member not to think that you are the help desk for every complainer, and then go beat on the city manager. Why aren't you helping this person? Answer is he is, it's to the best of his ability. The same thing with the mayor. Don't worry, they really like to go to the mayor, right? The number one. Say, why aren't you doing something? I it's been it's been years and the problems still exist. It's like, yes, some problems don't have good solutions. We'll do what we can. So again, your question is what can we do to better meet the citizens? I think the current administration, based on who's running, managing the operations and all the the rank and file, I believe they're doing the best they can. Can we always improve? Yes. And I believe our city manager is trying to improve. I know if I can go off on that for a while. To me, the sign of a really good manager is to develop a good team. He's not going to do it all himself. He needs a solid team. Our city manager came to the city. Frankly, the city employees were very demoralized, but we had a very good base of dedicated people. He basically reinvigorated them. He recruited outside people, he actually coaxed a few out of retirement. To me, that's a sign of a very good manager, is it his ability to develop the team? Yeah. And so, yes, can we do better? Yes, I'm I'm convinced what we have is doing the best that we can.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, so the last question is supposed to be fun. All right. Fun question. And I everybody, anybody who's listened to more than one of these already knows where I'm going with this. So, like my wife and I, we drive by Clawson City Park every Christmas. Everybody's got lights on their houses, and my wife looks at the park, it's dark. She's like, Oh, wouldn't it be nice if it was just all lit up with Christmas lights? You know, she can just visual vision, you know, all the trees with lights hanging and bonfires and people, you know, gathering out there in the you know, the Christmas wonderland of City Park. And if only we had the energy, money, and time to do that. So here's the question: like, if if money were no issue and you could do one fun thing for the people of Clausen, right? Not infrastructure, you know, the the necessary stuff, but something fun that would benefit everybody who lives here. Uh a program, a project, a structure, whatever. What what's your idea? What's the fun thing that you would uh you would do?
SPEAKER_01:So if somebody came and just dropped a few million on our group set, what would I do? Yeah. Well, you've got to be careful of the old saying that money quickly gotten is quickly lost. So I guess we should have some idea in case such a thing happens. If I had to pick one, and maybe it's a little infrastructure-ish, is the community center at Hunter. I think it provides an excellent forum, but it's getting a little long in the tooth. And so if we could definitely renovate it big time, if we could tear it down and build a new one, that'd be great. Again, these are dreams, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, I know that when we did the infrastructure build, we deliberately did not get into Hunter, did not get the parking lot because we we wanted to stay focused. Yeah, yeah. You know, roads, sewers, waterings. But yes, I would develop and enhance that because the community center actually it meets it's not just it's the seniors, it's the youth, it's all different ages. It's it's kind of for everybody. It's not it's not just one thing. And yeah, so if I had a big pile of money to spend, I'd spend it, and I say not necessarily on that building, but in that direction. You know, we have like, for example, senior citizens. I've heard from many seniors that are from neighboring communities that they'll come to Clausen because we have the best. Yeah, really like that. So I think the whole, I think our previous parks and rec manager did a very good job. They've moved we moved on, and new man's coming is doing a good job too. I think they're really getting in there and doing the best they can.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and if I could send them any wealthy benefactors listening out there, you heard the idea. Well, Bruce Anderson has served for four years on Clawstone City Council. He's running for re-election this fall, 2025, for another four years, and we've been having coffee here together. He's been drinking hot chocolate of having coffee. Here at uh Kave Cafe in downtown Clauston, Bruce, thanks for being with us today. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Coffee with Clawsden Candidates. Remember to check out the other 13 Clots and candidates in the other 13 episodes. And if you found this podcast to be valuable to you, please share it with a neighbor in Claudston. Don't forget to support our local sponsors who made this podcast possible. Special thanks to Blair Memorial Public Library, the Clawston Historical Museum, and Cave Cafe, all in Clawsden, for letting us record 13 of the 14 episodes at their locations. Make sure you go visit every one of them and tell them thank you. The Coffee with Clawson Candidates podcast is written, directed, hosted, recorded, and edited by B.T. Irwin, and produced by James Flanagan at Podcast Your Voice Studios in Southfield. Visit the Clauston City Elections page at cityofcloston.com to learn how, when, and where to cast your ballot this fall. We'll post a link in the show notes. Get out there and vote, Clawson. Until next time, grace and peace to you and all your Clawson neighbors.
